2019/20 Marcel Brands

[davek]

I don't think anyone could take issue with this post - its already obvious to most the impact that Ancelotti has had on Everton. Isn't that why we brought him in??

What blots the copybook though Dave is the concurrent demonising of Brands, as if he is now suddenly stealing a living. We are building for a great management team as well as a great footy team.

I dont rate him and I dont believe the post he has should exist. It's confusing and wasteful, as the last 4 years have shown us in spades.

 

[Zatara]

I'm not. I only ever said (logically) that Richarlison was a Silva signing. The diffference now is that we've had three high profile signings all more than likely to have been Ancelotti driven and where Brands had a minor functionary role.

Brands buys generally young with potential...good, bad or indifferent as it turns out. What we've seen this window isn't that.

Branthwaite in Jan
Nkounkou
Allan
James

Which 3 are high profile David?

 

[davek]

Branthwaite in Jan
Nkounkou
Allan
James

Which 3 are high profile David?

Allan
James
Doucoure (to come)

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm not. I only ever said (logically) that Richarlison was a Silva signing. The diffference now is that we've had three high profile signings all more than likely to have been Ancelotti driven and where Brands had a minor functionary role.

Brands buys generally young with potential...good, bad or indifferent as it turns out. What we've seen this window isn't that.

I can see both sides on this Dave. One thing I will say though, is I think it's a strength not a weakness for a DOF to be to identify which players are worth supporting the manager with. Like take Richarlinson (who to be fair Brands wanted to sign at PSV) a more inexperienced DOF might have dragged their heels. You see that a lot with DOF, as if to prove a point. I don't think thats sensible.

The broader issue about his role is worthwhile though. I know you've said before you want a quality CEO who can help oversee transfers, working closely with a manager and a competent Head Scout. So it's not that you don't want a structure, but you probably want the roles to just be allocated slightly differently. Theres certainly a case that with a manager like Ancelotti, that would work better.

 

[Paul Rideout]

I'm not. I only ever said (logically) that Richarlison was a Silva signing. The diffference now is that we've had three high profile signings all more than likely to have been Ancelotti driven and where Brands had a minor functionary role.

Brands buys generally young with potential...good, bad or indifferent as it turns out. What we've seen this window isn't that.

SO you think Carlo negotiated the transfer fee & the contract terms? Is that Brands?

because 19mllion is a steal.

 

[davek]

I can see both sides on this Dave. One thing I will say though, is I think it's a strength not a weakness for a DOF to be to identify which players are worth supporting the manager with. Like take Richarlinson (who to be fair Brands wanted to sign at PSV) a more inexperienced DOF might have dragged their heels. You see that a lot with DOF, as if to prove a point. I don't think thats sensible.

The broader issue about his role is worthwhile though. I know you've said before you want a quality CEO who can help oversee transfers, working closely with a manager and a competent Head Scout. So it's not that you don't want a structure, but you probably want the roles to just be allocated slightly differently. Theres certainly a case that with a manager like Ancelotti, that would work better.

I've always been suspicious of the DoF role. It's a sinecure for me. It's the type of show off position I expect a clueless biff concerning football like Moshiri has created because it works elsewhere. He's taken no consideration of the culture of our club onboard.

We do well with no layer of bureaucracy between manager and CEO or chairman. The manager has to roll out his vision unencumbered...and I think that's what we're seeing this window for the most part. Back to basics...and not before time after the most wasteful and frustrating period in the club's recent history.

 

[Moomin]

Basically: "Brands' model has been shelved; Everton are back to a pre-DoF era when managers took charge".

This is correct.

When Brands did that self promotion show on Sky or BT and called himself the architect. He stated his model was to buy players with potential in there early 20's and move away from buying players at an older age with no resale value. His words not mine.

The architect has been told to pipe down because Carlo runs the show. He will do as he is told by Carlo.

 

[Saint Domingo]

This is correct.

When Brands did that self promotion show on Sky or BT and called himself the architect. He stated his model was to buy players with potential in there early 20's and move away from buying players at an older age with no resale value. His words not mine.

The architect has been told to pipe down because Carlo runs the show. He will do as he is told by Carlo.

Which is why 2 of the last 4 signings have been Branthwaite and Nkounkou?

 

[davek]

SO you think Carlo negotiated the transfer fee & the contract terms? Is that Brands?

because 19mllion is a steal.

Pen and paper, non-creative stuff.

 

[Furey1878]

I am. Three good signings.

I just take issue with anyone not seeing the obvious shift away from the Brands' model this window to bringing in players who the manager targetted and did a lot of the legwork on along with Moshiri.

I know what you mean, on the face of it you might be asking yourself what does Brands actually do if we're just signing 2 fellas Carlo personally wanted and another that Silva personally wanted.

Firstly, we've been able to keep the fee down for all 3, all being ~20 mil when we defo could have been fleeced for more, from the Kean deal last summer, I defo think keeping the fees down is due to him (lord knows what Walsh would have paid).

Secondly, I've got no problem with the key transfer targets being CL or PL players we know, as ever our first focus in the window should be improving the squad which these 3 players certainly will, and Carlo has enough to go into the new season. Now we've got the key area in midfield sorted, Brands has got until early October to facilitate outgoings and focus on the less pressing positions (RB and winger reported, though I'm praying for a goalie), so this is where we'll hopefully see him doing what he's supposed to do in our heads; giving the manager a list of players that fit the bill for what he needs at a low cost.

In summary it looks like we're going for a mixed manager's call and DoF's call approach, and I think it's for the best. Brands should constantly be on the hunt for players he can acquire for low fees who can give something to the squad and go onto becoming an asset we sell at a higher price. But first and foremost if the manager, especially a manager like Carlo, has his heart set on a player who he feels will definitely improve us and he can get the best out of then we should do our best to make that happen.

 

[Mildredblues]

Basically: "Brands' model has been shelved; Everton are back to a pre-DoF era when managers took charge".

No. Brands got the price to 20 million.

 

[davek]

Which is why 2 of the last 4 signings have been Branthwaite and Nkounkou?

...which underlines that the model is broken if his model is to buy young.

 

[catcherintherye]

I've always been suspicious of the DoF role. It's a sinecure for me. It's the type of show off position I expect a clueless biff concerning football like Moshiri has created because it works elsewhere. He's taken no consideration of the culture of our club onboard.

We do well with no layer of bureaucracy between manager and CEO or chairman. The manager has to roll out his vision unencumbered...and I think that's what we're seeing this window for the most part. Back to basics...and not before time after the most wasteful and frustrating period in the club's recent history.

I think part of the issue is getting better people into positions. I've banged my head against the wall for a long long time, but if you could have a Leahy/Gilvary as chariman/CEO and then a football governer like David Gill or David Dein I think you'd be ok. I have to be quite frank I'd be a bit terrified leaving it to Bill and Denise.

As a slight aside, if Brands was working in to 2-3 of the above, I also think you'd see a big output in his performance but thats by the by. Does anyone honestly think Denise pulls him in for any kind of scrutiny? This is a woman who seems to write 1000 and say absolutely nothing (it takes one to know one in my case haha!)

 

[Paul Rideout]

Pen and paper, non-creative stuff.

if you think getting one of the worlds most followed sports people for under £20m and on £130k a week is not creative and doesnt deserve praise then you’ve truly welded those blinkers on.

 

[Saint Domingo]

...which underlines that the model is broken if his model is to buy young.

we have a first team squad containing Holgate Kenny Davies Gordon Branthwaite Richarlison Kean Nkounkou Iwobi Gbamin.

Anyone could see we needed a bit of experience to balance up. Even Brands went for Delph and Gomes under the previous manager.

The architect is building the roof for now and the foundations for the future. Enjoy him.