2019/20 Marcel Brands

[Blue Roo]

It's not really rubbish though is it?
Yeah performances haven't been the best, but some of the ridiculous var decisions we've been on the end of, added to the injuries we've had haven't helped his cause
After all, without Brighton's pen we win that game, and let's says the pen against spurs turns that into a win then we'd currently be 5 points better off and sitting 5th in the table if I'm not mistaken

Its how the team responded to the Brighton penalty that's the real issue here, and it has been for some time.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

Are you kiddin? May aswell be an agenda VAR and refs give us nothing and it’s wrong

Not sure what @Forever Blue has been watching this season, or even the last 10 seasons. Look at the poor decisions from last season that cost us 15/20 points imo.

Some of them decisions were marginal, but them 50/50’s always seem to go against us. Jags tackle wolves. Jorginho & Delph both with worse tackles against us but no red. The Richarlison headbutt, at Bournemouth, seen 3 players from the sky 6 do the exact same thing and only get yellows. The Utd pen, and later on the pen for us, why no 2nd yellow for smalling which was a poor challenge on Richarlison. We would’ve had 20 mins v 10 men 2-1 down.

Arsenal 3yrads off side goal. Disallowed goal to go 2 up on spurs, spurs were brilliant that day, but 2 of their goals shouldn’t have stood.
millwall hand ball in the cup, not to mention keane & Mina getting dragged back at corners. The Newcastle game 2 up and 2 pens turned down, their winner, only the 5 players standing offside. I’m sure I’ve probably missed a few others.

I’ve said about Leicester this season, they’re playing great and are flying at the moment. But they’ve had 4/5 VAR decisions go for them. What are they ahead of us, 13/14 points? If VAR has done it’s job properly, we are probably 3/4 points behind, we aren’t good enough to be that close on form this season, but that’s fact.

 

[f.t.r.s]

Near every team has had bad ref decisions go against them, Sheffield Utd could say the same in the Spurs game Arsenal against Palace etc.

We may well be 4-5 points better off but so would others clubs its not an agenda against EFC.

I'm not disputing that, but in this case, with a bit of good luck we could well be sitting 5th, instead of the luck going against us contributing to our current position

 

[Lanolin]

Its how the team responded to the Brighton penalty that's the real issue here, and it has been for some time.

In what way though? I think you mean brittle confidence, heads dropping etc? That isn't what happened at Brighton though, the reaction was more anger. They lost their heads a bit and forgot to concentrate on the game while they were charging round and arguing about stuff, The mentality stuff is getting boring now (well, it got boring about 20 years ago). We came from behind to go ahead at Brighton and were genuinely robbed, came from behind to get a point against Spurs, and recovered from being pegged back to push on and win against Southampton. The idea that we crumble as soon as something goes wrong is ridiculous.

 

[APN_EFC]

Come on mate, Baines in midfield was a shocking shout 3yrs.

Depends on silva keeping his job, but if we go 433 then you need 5 midfielders. So gbamin, Gomes, Davies, Delph and a new one, who I would argue needs to be better than all them and a permanent starter.

Add Iwobi if we want to play just 2 with him in front.

Yeah ok, so we need to buy a new player whatever happens, and Schneiderlin has to go

 

[MikeH72]

Delph was injury prone even at Man City wasn't he? That transfer doesn't make sense even more. I like him but it doesn't make sense.

Who would you pick in midfield with a 4-3-3. I'd go Davies Gbamin (If he turns out to be good) and Gomes,
How about a radical idea for this next few months, Baines in a 4-3-3?
Baines - Delph - Davies

lol can Baines even walk unassisted these days?

 

[Lanolin]

lol can Baines even walk unassisted these days?

I love the bloke, but he really should have been put down after that Wolves debacle last season, kinder all round.

 

[Zatara]

I'm hopeful on Kean as well
Holgate type - you mean a versatile young defender?
Superstart Centre Mid - where does that leave Gbamin and Gomes?
Prolific Forward = One out of Tosun, DCL have to go?

Holgate type as in fast, agile and can cover for Mina.

Superstar centre mid needed...none of ours are top notch.

We need 3 forwards...kean dcl + 1

Come on mate, Baines in midfield was a shocking shout 3yrs.

Depends on silva keeping his job, but if we go 433 then you need 5 midfielders. So gbamin, Gomes, Davies, Delph and a new one, who I would argue needs to be better than all them and a permanent starter.

Add Iwobi if we want to play just 2 with him in front.

Watford are struggling, but should stay up. But giving their best player away in jan, would be a huge risk and could potentially cost them a fortune. So the chances off selling him is slim and especially to us. They would want huge money, which he isn’t worth.

Good player, but not outstanding. The only difference is he has real power which our midfielders lack and he constantly drives into the box, which Gomes & Delph never do. Davies does but he isn’t the physical presence Doucoure is.

My thinking is:

Davies Gbamin Gomes + Iwobi at a push

If we want to go to a pure 433 then we need 2 more CMs (will no doubt have Delph as 5th choice) and even if we account for Iwobi, he may be needed in a wide position.

I think the priority for us should be a centre midfielder...really must be someone who can come in and make other players be excited to play alongside them...

A game changer...a leader and a match winner.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Are you kiddin? May aswell be an agenda VAR and refs give us nothing and it’s wrong

I agree however our gutless manager never kicks up a fuss about it and actually praises the refs so what can we do?

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I'm not disputing that, but in this case, with a bit of good luck we could well be sitting 5th, instead of the luck going against us contributing to our current position

But you've missed my point - we may get extra points but so would other clubs around us. Sheffield Utd were robbed of 2 points against Spurs, City were robbed against Spurs, Arsenal against Palace, Wolves against Leicester etc etc.

Its not just EFC that have lost points to bad decisions therefore its daft playing the 'we could be xyz if it werent for VAR' when other teams around us could also say that.

 

[Blue Roo]

In what way though? I think you mean brittle confidence, heads dropping etc? That isn't what happened at Brighton though, the reaction was more anger. They lost their heads a bit and forgot to concentrate on the game while they were charging round and arguing about stuff, The mentality stuff is getting boring now (well, it got boring about 20 years ago). We came from behind to go ahead at Brighton and were genuinely robbed, came from behind to get a point against Spurs, and recovered from being pegged back to push on and win against Southampton. The idea that we crumble as soon as something goes wrong is ridiculous.

Fair.
Yes, 'the idea that we crumble as soon as something goes wrong is ridiculous'. We'd have been relegated long ago if this was the case.
Everton that is not.
I wouldn't say 'brittle confidence' either, although 'heads dropping' has been an issue at times

But for want of a better way to describe, it feels like there is an underlying hesitancy running through it all, for a long time
with each successive manager producing its only flavour of hesitancy.

Its difficult to say as just a supporter whether the source of this is something deeper, whether it is originating behinds the scenes,
and whether its something successive managers have not being able to overcome.

That aside, I'm not have this we 'were genuinely robbed' stuff. Yes we were, but its the response that matters, its the response that defines. If it becomes a consistent, perennial Everton are the victims mentality then it is the club and its supporters that are doing the robbing.

In the Brighton match what stood out for me was that they didn't know how to lead or tactically channel that anger.
Just trying to play good attacking football will only get you so far.
And in the PL it won't get you very far at all, as a critical mass of teams exists, expertly navigating survival at the expense of the more 'liberated'.

Brighton played counter well enough to win the match after the penalty. We had heart, intent and anger but no answers.
And Brighton is the type of team we should really be beating. They went toe to toe with us up until then.

What Silva is trying to do is problematic and doesn't seem to be working but that's for another thread.

What Brands needs to do is find leaders on the pitch who can lead the play, and a manger that can give them the template, the answers.
The razzle dazzle, and the liberation from the hesitancy, comes after, and as a result of this.

 

[Lanolin]

Fair.
Yes, 'the idea that we crumble as soon as something goes wrong is ridiculous'. We'd have been relegated long ago if this was the case.
Everton that is not.
I wouldn't say 'brittle confidence' either, although 'heads dropping' has been an issue at times

But for want of a better way to describe, it feels like there is an underlying hesitancy running through it all, for a long time
with each successive manager producing its only flavour of hesitancy.

Its difficult to say as just a supporter whether the source of this is something deeper, whether it is originating behinds the scenes,
and whether its something successive managers have not being able to overcome.

That aside, I'm not have this we 'were genuinely robbed' stuff. Yes we were, but its the response that matters, its the response that defines. If it becomes a consistent, perennial Everton are the victims mentality then it is the club and its supporters that are doing the robbing.

In the Brighton match what stood out for me was that they didn't know how to lead or tactically channel that anger.
Just trying to play good attacking football will only get you so far.
And in the PL it won't get you very far at all, as a critical mass of teams exists, expertly navigating survival at the expense of the more 'liberated'.

Brighton played counter well enough to win the match after the penalty. We had heart, intent and anger but no answers.
And Brighton is the type of team we should really be beating. They went toe to toe with us up until then.

What Silva is trying to do is problematic and doesn't seem to be working but that's for another thread.

What Brands needs to do is find leaders on the pitch who can lead the play, and a manger that can give them the template, the answers.
The razzle dazzle, and the liberation from the hesitancy, comes after, and as a result of this.

I think it's just an easy criticism to make to be honest. I remember United coming to Goodison under Ferguson. We beat them and two of their very experienced leaders, Neville and Scholes, were sent off because their heads had gone. They weren't short of winners or positive mentalities, but they weren't able to correctly channel their anger either. It happens.

 

[Carlito]

I love the bloke, but he really should have been put down after that Wolves debacle last season, kinder all round.

Not that I'd have kept either of them, but I still don't understand how Baines got a new deal ahead of Jagielka.

 

[blue1948]

But you've missed my point - we may get extra points but so would other clubs around us. Sheffield Utd were robbed of 2 points against Spurs, City were robbed against Spurs, Arsenal against Palace, Wolves against Leicester etc etc.

Its not just EFC that have lost points to bad decisions therefore its daft playing the 'we could be xyz if it werent for VAR' when other teams around us could also say that.

Not everyone can get extra points .If they can then I am wrong but it doesn't ring true unless they are in the same match .

 

[Blue Roo]

I think it's just an easy criticism to make to be honest. I remember United coming to Goodison under Ferguson. We beat them and two of their very experienced leaders, Neville and Scholes, were sent off because their heads had gone. They weren't short of winners or positive mentalities, but they weren't able to correctly channel their anger either. It happens.

Whichever way the criticism comes, the problem remains.
The eg given means nothing in this context.
The interest and aim should be how do you get the team to successfully respond and overcome situations like the Brighton VAR or when simply going a goal behind.
Manure was able to do this more often than not during the Ferguson era, this eg is just about going too far, which they no doubt learnt from.
Perhaps you can't just see the correlation between a team who has managed only once to come from behind and win (against the worst side in the league) and the repsonse following the VAR decision.
The question is not whether the problem exists but rather whats the source/nature of the problem - and no its not bc we are unlucky.