2020/21 Marcel Brands

[Goat]

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, are we? I mean, Kenny played 77 minutes of league football before being sent out on loan again, so if the plan was to give him a go as backup, it wasn't put together with much conviction.

Maybe I just don't understand the DoF model, but I thought that one of the big benefits would be him overseeing an expansive scouting network, so I don't think it's unfair to expect to have cover across the park, even if it's cheap. For example, I have no issue with Nkounkou being the reserve left-back, but if the manager isn't interested in blooding youth players, it means that there's effectively no cover in that position. Is Brands not aware of how Ancelotti operates?

Also, the fact that some of the poorer signings aren't staying as long as others is a very low bar, and it seems a bit rich to talk about 'anchors' when top-earner Bernard (Brands's own signing) was blocked from leaving in the summer, and second-top Sigurdsson is getting a new contract. We've spent years being told that we have to wait until Walsh's players are gone, but I'm not sure that it'll be any easier to shift the likes of Delph and Iwobi.

Again mate, name a position and I will be able to list 3 or 4 players for that role.

We have cover across the park.

 

[TheSecondComing]

Its not his job to finish higher in the league, that's why we employ managers and he doesn't pick the side.

Its his job to improve the squad and you've already admitted he has, so welcome a board.

It’s more complicated than that including improving to move ahead of rivals and oh his job is to pick the manager isn’t it?

 

[Carlito]

Again mate, name a position and I will be able to list 3 or 4 players for that role.

We have cover across the park.

Anyone can play out of position anywhere, yeah.

 

[Goat]

Anyone can play out of position anywhere, yeah.

I never suggested playing anybody out of position.

 

[Carlito]

I never suggested playing anybody out of position.

That's why you'll never be featured on Premier League World.

 

[Goat]

That's why you'll never be featured on Premier League World.

This sounds, good?

 

[Bluestar]

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, are we? I mean, Kenny played 77 minutes of league football before being sent out on loan again, so if the plan was to give him a go as backup, it wasn't put together with much conviction.

Maybe I just don't understand the DoF model, but I thought that one of the big benefits would be him overseeing an expansive scouting network, so I don't think it's unfair to expect to have cover across the park, even if it's cheap. For example, I have no issue with Nkounkou being the reserve left-back, but if the manager isn't interested in blooding youth players, it means that there's effectively no cover in that position. Is Brands not aware of how Ancelotti operates?

Also, the fact that some of the poorer signings aren't staying as long as others is a very low bar, and it seems a bit rich to talk about 'anchors' when top-earner Bernard (Brands's own signing) was blocked from leaving in the summer, and second-top Sigurdsson is getting a new contract. We've spent years being told that we have to wait until Walsh's players are gone, but I'm not sure that it'll be any easier to shift the likes of Delph and Iwobi.

I’m sure Brands and Ancelotti talk all the time. But it strikes me that Ancelotti is willing to persevere with gaps in his squad and Is willing to wait to get the quality he wants. It’s why Sidebe wasn’t signed, Walcott was shifted, King won’t be extended, and I suspect other players will be moved on in Summer.

It’s also why JJK, Gordon, Branthwaite and Simms are all out on loan.

Ancelotti could have had cover if he wanted.

Really we are witnessing a slow transformation from a bloated unusable squad to a more Limited number of better players. It’s evolution not revolution. But it is happening.

 

[Goat]

I’m sure Brands and Ancelotti talk all the time. But it strikes me that Ancelotti is willing to persevere with gaps in his squad and Is willing to wait to get the quality he wants. It’s why Sidebe wasn’t signed, Walcott was shifted, King won’t be extended, and I suspect other players will be moved on in Summer.

It’s also why JJK, Gordon, Branthwaite and Simms are all out on loan.

Ancelotti could have had cover if he wanted.

Really we are witnessing a slow transformation from a bloated unusable squad to a more Limited number of better players. It’s evolution not revolution. But it is happening.

I think 1 time when I did my squad analysis thread we had a First Team squad of something like 46 players.

We currently have around 24.

Sure some of our loans will come back, but at least we haven't got a lot of wastage lying around.

 

[Carlito]

I’m sure Brands and Ancelotti talk all the time. But it strikes me that Ancelotti is willing to persevere with gaps in his squad and Is willing to wait to get the quality he wants. It’s why Sidebe wasn’t signed, Walcott was shifted, King won’t be extended, and I suspect other players will be moved on in Summer.

It’s also why JJK, Gordon, Branthwaite and Simms are all out on loan.

Ancelotti could have had cover if he wanted.

Really we are witnessing a slow transformation from a bloated unusable squad to a more Limited number of better players. It’s evolution not revolution. But it is happening.

I don't use this word lightly, nor do I wish to offend you or incur the wrath of the mods, but...

Codswallop.

 

[Bluestar]

I think 1 time when I did my squad analysis thread we had a First Team squad of something like 46 players.

We currently have around 24.

Sure some of our loans will come back, but at least we haven't got a lot of wastage lying around.

It’s been a crazy period. Balancing trying to reduce the playing staff with managing the first team squad has been complicated. The first team numbers seem reasonable now, just not sufficient depth or quality.

 

[Bluestar]

I don't use this word lightly, nor do I wish to offend you or incur the wrath of the mods, but...

Codswallop.

Love that word.

Anyway, Ancelotti could have kept players as cover but chose not to. We could have signed Sidebe, but chose not to. We went with JJK as backup and put the money into James, Doucoure, Allan and Godfrey. Presumably signing Sidebe would have been at the expense of one of those signings.

The transfer decisions have been compromises, balancing requirements to strengthen one position vs another. It’s been more a cute because of the mess we got ourselves into UID underperforming first team players.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I think 1 time when I did my squad analysis thread we had a First Team squad of something like 46 players.

We currently have around 24.

Sure some of our loans will come back, but at least we haven't got a lot of wastage lying around.

How many of that 24 would you actually be comfortable with getting a prolonged run of games though?

Because if it's less than 22 then that's a super thin squad for a supposed European chasing team

You ideally want two first team quality players for every position that you wouldn't mind seeing get plugged in, with that second 11 being capable of winning

That's what the likes of City have

 

[Goat]

How many of that 24 would you actually be comfortable with getting a prolonged run of games though?

Because if it's less than 22 then that's a super thin squad for a supposed European chasing team

You ideally want two first team quality players for every position that you wouldn't mind seeing get plugged in, with that second 11 being capable of winning

That's what the likes of City have

City are fighting for 4 trophies Mikey.

They are in a vastly different league than us.

The quality of depth is horrific in places, I've never disputed that, but cover is there.

 

[Carlito]

Love that word.

Anyway, Ancelotti could have kept players as cover but chose not to. We could have signed Sidebe, but chose not to. We went with JJK as backup and put the money into James, Doucoure, Allan and Godfrey. Presumably signing Sidebe would have been at the expense of one of those signings.

The transfer decisions have been compromises, balancing requirements to strengthen one position vs another. It’s been more a cute because of the mess we got ourselves into UID underperforming first team players.

I think we've possibly been arguing about different matters.

Firstly, I'm not bothered about Sidibe leaving, since he was useless in a four anyway, but I don't see how Kenny being loaned out after 77 minutes of league football is anything other than further evidence that Brands isn't supplying managers with adequate players (see also: King, Kean, Iwobi, Bernard, Delph and arguably Gomes). If your response is going to be that Ancelotti likes not having a natural right-back in his team half the time, fair enough, but that sounds bananas to me.

Leaving aside the fact that Coleman has been finished for a long time now (so it's not really an issue of cover), my problem is that after three years of paying someone a lot of money to overhaul the club's recruitment process, we're still not in a position to find serviceable squad players in cheaper markets, with a view to some of them stepping up a level and becoming starters.

We all know that this isn't going to be another City or Chelsea scenario, and that's fine, but am I expecting too much by thinking that the point of hiring a Brands-type DoF is to develop the sort of scouting network seen at the likes of Sevilla and Atalanta? Maybe I am - I don't know.

If it's another summer of just seeing who's not wanted at major clubs, or paying a premium to buy from within the English market, it'll be an indictment of Brands's operation.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think we've possibly been arguing about different matters.

Firstly, I'm not bothered about Sidibe leaving, since he was useless in a four anyway, but I don't see how Kenny being loaned out after 77 minutes of league football is anything other than further evidence that Brands isn't supplying managers with adequate players (see also: King, Kean, Iwobi, Bernard, Delph and arguably Gomes). If your response is going to be that Ancelotti likes not having a natural right-back in his team half the time, fair enough, but that sounds bananas to me.

Leaving aside the fact that Coleman has been finished for a long time now (so it's not really an issue of cover), my problem is that after three years of paying someone a lot of money to overhaul the club's recruitment process, we're still not in a position to find serviceable squad players in cheaper markets, with a view to some of them stepping up a level and becoming starters.

We all know that this isn't going to be another City or Chelsea scenario, and that's fine, but am I expecting too much by thinking that the point of hiring a Brands-type DoF is to develop the sort of scouting network seen at the likes of Sevilla and Atalanta? Maybe I am - I don't know.

If it's another summer of just seeing who's not wanted at major clubs, or paying a premium to buy from within the English market, it'll be an indictment of Brands's operation.

In fairness to Brands, I think the one thing he has done well is negotiate and avoid paying the English premium. Most of the players we sign now, we tend to negotiate others down a lot, and pay more of a "European" fee as opposed to one with the English tax. I know thats subjective but I felt we had started paying the English tax before him on players. I also appreciate people will throw Delph at me, but Delph was just a bad buy, not necessarily a bad price if that makes sense? Had Delph been 2 million, he was just a bad buy. He had allocated a role for him that he couldn't/wouldn't do.

The wider point is fair though. I think he's been quite small c conservative here. There look to be changes on the academy side now, but it's 2.5 years in. Clearly he hasn't moved much radically, which I think most people would have wanted to see a bit more of. I'd like to see more creativity and radicalism from him for sure. I think I said to you in the Kean thread, we shouldn't let him go out on loan again. If the market won't pay what we could get for Kean, the radical move is tosell one of DCL/Rricharlison at the high end of the market and leave the spot open for Kean. Those are the sort of tough, but smart moves these clubs make.

As he's here to stay, I hope we begin to transition more towards. With Ancelotti at the helm, who is a safe pair of hands at first team level, there is really no reason why we can't do that. Sure Ancleotti will get 1 or 2 of his people each summer, but the rest need to be more creative buys. More Godfreys, but also more Brainthwaite/NKounkou's would be great.

He's also at a bit of a crunch point with the likes of Gordon, whereby he has to be brave enough to open a squad place for him.