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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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Aberblue said:
Or, looking at it another way: failing to replace ageing players (Jagielka, Howard, Baines, Distin etc etc); buying inadequate players (McGeady, Kone, Alcaraz, that Swiss lad, etc etc); constantly signing players who never played for us (Niasse, Astu, Traore); having the worst home record ever; building a shaky reputation on cup runs against poor opponents and failing as soon as we played someone good; inability to manage basic things like player fitness; losing the respect of the players; providing some of the dullest football I've ever seen from Everton; repeated humiliations in his last weeks (Liverpool, Leicester, even Sunderland).

I'm honestly amazed that anyone can defend Martinez's record at Everton.
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Buying bad players. Guess what? Those bad players just paid for the spending spree Koeman went on in the summer. The feller came in and taught our club how to play football on the deck again.

But you are right about not getting shut of rubbish like Baines and Jagielka.
 
Khalekan said:
It is beginning to look like a golden era if you ask me.
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Hi mate.

Well, it's certainly not the "disaster" mentioned by one poster here tonight. 18 months of fine football and decent results followed by 18 months of deflation as the defence fell apart and we only had the cups to find pride in our performances in.

Not great. Not disastrous.

That's all there is to it really.
 
davek said:
Hi mate.

Well, it's certainly not the "disaster" mentioned by one poster here tonight. 18 months of fine football and decent results followed by 18 months of deflation as the defence fell apart and we only had the cups to find pride in our performances in.

Not great. Not disastrous.

That's all there is to it really.
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Dave, it is so good to see you back.

During your absence a lot of people have come to see the wisdom of your words ;)
 

Khalekan said:
Dave, it is so good to see you back.

During your absence a lot of people have come to see the wisdom of your words ;)
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Thanks mate.

I don't know about that like. I think some people were allowing themselves to ignore the warning signs because they desperately wanted to believe.

It'll get better than this right now. We'll get 7th or 8th. But any belief that we have a game changing regime has been placed in the dustbin forever. It's not happening.
 
davek said:
Thanks mate.

I don't know about that like. I think some people were allowing themselves to ignore the warning signs because they desperately wanted to believe.

It'll get better than this right now. We'll get 7th or 8th. But any belief that we have a game changing regime has been placed in the dustbin forever. It's not happening.
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Sad but true :(
 
davek said:
Hi mate.

Well, it's certainly not the "disaster" mentioned by one poster here tonight. 18 months of fine football and decent results followed by 18 months of deflation as the defence fell apart and we only had the cups to find pride in our performances in.

Not great. Not disastrous.

That's all there is to it really.
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Well i think the worst home record in our modern history was disastrous enough Dave!Martinez was a problem that we had to get rid off.Unfortunately the Dutch Moyes is another problem that needs getting rid off.
 
Cork Evertonian said:
Well i think the worst home record in our modern history was disastrous enough Dave!Martinez was a problem that we had to get rid off.Unfortunately the Dutch Moyes is another problem that needs getting rid off.
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Dare I say I think there's two different dynamics at work with those two:

Martinez had half a clue about setting up and strategy but lost the will of the players and fans to support it - especially over defensive duties; Koeman seems to have the support of the players and fans (until the last few weeks) but is completely clueless in terms of any notion of putting a team together and setting it up.

Neither are sustainable.
 
davek said:
Got it wrong? Sorry, I dont understand. I'd have thought in the current situation this club finds itself in any casting aspersions of the former regime might look like folly.

A cup winner; a record holder with us; a manager that qualifies his team first for the WC.

...boy did I get that wrong, eh?
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A winner of...??? Precisely sod all...
 

davek said:
Dare I say I think there's two different dynamics at work with those two:

Martinez had half a clue about setting up and strategy but lost the will of the players and fans to support it - especially over defensive duties; Koeman seems to have the support of the players and fans (until the last few weeks) but is completely clueless in terms of any notion of putting a team together and setting it up.

Neither are sustainable.
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Correct.
In fact I'd go further. Koeman is playing an almost identical system to Martinez. The only difference is that with the inclusion of three no10's behind the striker which has made that section of the pitch much narrower and congested. With Martinez you had say Kev and Ross pushing out to help out the Fullbacks when they got forward, now the Full backs have to provide all of the width themselves, have no options other than welly in a cross (even when one is not on), AND still be expected to be back defending when possession is lost usually by them trying to thread a ball into the overly congested Penalty Area.

It's almost like Koeman has decided to setup to accentuate the tactical problems that got Martinez had. Coco might not be great (he's cover anyway) but he is better going forward than he is defending, but both he and Baines are being hung out to dry the way we are set up to play. If they go forward then we have a bit of width but no defence, if they hang back then we are quite solid at the back but have nothing going forward. At the moment we struggle to cope with their transition between defending and attacking because our defensive cover isn't quick (or even reliable) enough. Getting the two outer no10's to push outward would create a bit of space and a pass for the Fullback

err.. Human.
 
Lord Buckethead said:
Correct.
In fact I'd go further. Koeman is playing an almost identical system to Martinez. The only difference is that with the inclusion of three no10's behind the striker which has made that section of the pitch much narrower and congested. With Martinez you had say Kev and Ross pushing out to help out the Fullbacks when they got forward, now the Full backs have to provide all of the width themselves, have no options other than welly in a cross (even when one is not on), AND still be expected to be back defending when possession is lost usually by them trying to thread a ball into the overly congested Penalty Area.

It's almost like Koeman has decided to setup to accentuate the tactical problems that got Martinez had. Coco might not be great (he's cover anyway) but he is better going forward than he is defending, but both he and Baines are being hung out to dry the way we are set up to play. If they go forward then we have a bit of width but no defence, if they hang back then we are quite solid at the back but have nothing going forward. At the moment we struggle to cope with their transition between defending and attacking because our defensive cover isn't quick (or even reliable) enough. Getting the two outer no10's to push outward would create a bit of space and a pass for the Fullback

err.. Human.
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That's a problem identified by you and others (the lack of width and, thereby, an overloading by the opposition on our flanks which they can thern exploit). However, look at the other problems we have: balls simply dumped into the box and not dealt with by centre backs and GK; the absence now of any pressing game (a manager-lauded feature of last season's better performances) - Burnley, for example, knocked together a 26 pass move yesterday (MOTD2 stated 24 but it was more) and we let them do it without any serious press....BURNLEY!

It's a shambles.

Under RM the defence went AWOL in the final season - but that was at least all part of a strategy that was intent on getting high up the pitch to pressure opponent's parked bus and grab a few goals...there was a method in the madness in other words. Now I just see "madness" and no method.
 
davek said:
That's a problem identified by you and others (the lack of width and, thereby, an overloading by the opposition on our flanks which they can thern exploit). However, look at the other problems we have: balls simply dumped into the box and not dealt with by centre backs and GK; the absence now of any pressing game (a manager-lauded feature of last season's better performances) - Burnley, for example, knocked together a 26 pass move yesterday (MOTD2 stated 24 but it was more) and we let them do it without any serious press....BURNLEY!

It's a shambles.

Under RM the defence went AWOL in the final season - but that was at least all part of a strategy that was intent on getting high up the pitch to pressure opponent's parked bus and grab a few goals...there was a method in the madness in other words. Now I just see "madness" and no method.
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Pretty apt description of the status quo.

Wouldn't necessarily describe the defence as going missing in that season though, best defensive season since 07-08 I think?
 

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