Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Gwladysstreetlad]

What did David Moyes "achieve"?

Royle of course, he won something!

Top four finish on a shoestring budget and only spent two seasons outside the top half of the premier league with us out of eleven seasons and never back to back. Somthing Martinez managed in three years. Reached a cup final (and we all know how impressive reaching semi finals are now apparently!) along with a few semi finals, built two good sides that he admittedly held back with his negitiveity. Brought in players who still play for us to this day (possibly because the two fools who followed him here are clueless). Most importantly he stopped us from doing what's since happend to Leeds, Villa and many others, he saved this club from self destruction and potentially years in the wilderness.

 

[Papa Shango]

I really couldn't care less if we lose 5-4 or 1-0. It's still a defeat and therefore not entertaining to me. A 4-2 defeat would annoy me just as much as a 2-0 defeat on so on and so on. I don't enjoy any part of a game we lose, it's not exciting to play kamikaze like football for the entertainment of the neutrals.

Why are you acting like we are disagreeing? I agree with you on that!

What I am saying is that at the time int he match itself at least you would get some enjoyment. Afterwards of course not but we all celebrate a goal (as long as its not a consolation) so at least you get something out of the game rather than 90 minutes of utter nothingness.

Still rubbish at the end of course.

 

[Papa Shango]

Top four finish on a shoestring budget and only spent two seasons outside the top half of the premier league with us out of eleven seasons and never back to back. Somthing Martinez managed in three years. Reached a cup final (and we all know how impressive reaching semi finals are now apparently!) along with a few semi finals, built two good sides that he admittedly held back with his negitiveity. Brought in players who still play for us to this day (possibly because the two fools who followed him here are clueless). Most importantly he stopped us from doing what's since happend to Leeds, Villa and many others, he saved this club from self destruction and potentially years in the wilderness.

Why bring Martinez into it? I asked what David Moyes had achieved, that's all. (I know it's the Martinez thread of course but still..)

He achieved nothing. A top four finish is totally useless when we did not qualify for the Champions League and then dipped out of the Europa League in shambolic fashion. It is just a number, we didnt even gain much financially from it as we did not qualify so it ends up being worthless.

Moyes did OK for us generally. It just shows how far we have fell and how much of a loser mentality he installed into us that we think he "achieved something" by coming in the top half or whatever. (this also is evident in the highest league points total thing, it means zero at the end of the day.)

Saving us from doing a Villa, Leeds etc was the bare minimum expected from him. He nailed that. He also got 11 years, regardless of money woes etc 11 years is a ridiculously long time to be a manager in the top flight. I would expect any manager to at least look like winning something in that time.

He was fine. Achievements though? Pfft!

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Why bring Martinez into it? I asked what David Moyes had achieved, that's all. (I know it's the Martinez thread of course but still..)

He achieved nothing. A top four finish is totally useless when we did not qualify for the Champions League and then dipped out of the Europa League in shambolic fashion. It is just a number, we didnt even gain much financially from it as we did not qualify so it ends up being worthless.

Moyes did OK for us generally. It just shows how far we have fell and how much of a loser mentality he installed into us that we think he "achieved something" by coming in the top half or whatever. (this also is evident in the highest league points total thing, it means zero at the end of the day.)

Saving us from doing a Villa, Leeds etc was the bare minimum expected from him. He nailed that. He also got 11 years, regardless of money woes etc 11 years is a ridiculously long time to be a manager in the top flight. I would expect any manager to at least look like winning something in that time.

He was fine. Achievements though? Pfft!

Because it's in the Maertinez thrend? (But you already spotted that one ) And because it's very relevant when discussing what Moyes did to look at his successors.

Top four isn't useless it's our best finish of the Premier League era. It's better then anyone before him or after him have done since the beginigng of the Prem. Until it's bettered it's the bench mark and it's our mythical target every season.

Saving us from doing a Villa was minimum expectations? It wasn't pal, we'd been ground down by over a decades worth of dross that makes both this season and Martinez second and third year loom fun. We'd stared relegation in the face for to long and our whole fanbase was ground down. His first seven years here were fine, his last four were four seasons to long.

Look I'm not saying he was a great manager or anything but he did a million times better then both Martinez and Koeman have done here. With the exception of Royle, nobody since Kendall in his first run has done better then Moyes so while I'd not call him a great manager I've got a lot more time for him then Moonface and El Fraudo.

 

[Papa Shango]

Because it's in the Maertinez thrend? (But you already spotted that one ) And because it's very relevant when discussing what Moyes did to look at his successors.

Top four isn't useless it's our best finish of the Premier League era. It's better then anyone before him or after him have done since the beginigng of the Prem. Until it's bettered it's the bench mark and it's our mythical target every season.

Saving us from doing a Villa was minimum expectations? It wasn't pal, we'd been ground down by over a decades worth of dross that makes both this season and Martinez second and third year loom fun. We'd stared relegation in the face for to long and our whole fanbase was ground down. His first seven years here were fine, his last four were four seasons to long.

Look I'm not saying he was a great manager or anything but he did a million times better then both Martinez and Koeman have done here. With the exception of Royle, nobody since Kendall in his first run has done better then Moyes so while I'd not call him a great manager I've got a lot more time for him then Moonface and El Fraudo.

If you are happy with that then good on you. To me a top 4 finish means nothing unless you do something with it.

Yeah I would say it was minimum expectations. We have spent the most time in the top flight of any club in world football.

In the modern Era Moyes probably would have been jibbed off after his second season.

I am just not easily impressed maybe? I want to win stuff. I want to go out and try to win stuff, not merely exist.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

If you are happy with that then good on you. To me a top 4 finish means nothing unless you do something with it.

Yeah I would say it was minimum expectations. We have spent the most time in the top flight of any club in world football.

In the modern Era Moyes probably would have been jibbed off after his second season.

I am just not easily impressed maybe? I want to win stuff. I want to go out and try to win stuff, not merely exist.

Moyes didn't have us were i wanted us to be but it was better then the position we were in for a decade before and better then were we've been ever since. Top four do as mean somthing and until it's surpassed it will remain our best league season. League wise it's our target most season or should be at any rate (Ye I know some will say the league sould be the target but let's be realistic).

If you want to juat ignore how grim things were pre Moyes then fine your entitled to do so but it's my opinion that saving us as he did isn't somthing to be dismissed as we've seen how far "big clubs" can fall these days.

Yes in the modern era clubs sack managers every other season and it's not a good thing imo. Not for the game and certainly not for the best majority of clubs.

This is good, we both want the same thing. Everton to win things and get back to the top were we belong. I'd argue however the the biggest stumbling block from that ever happening isn't our managers it's the people running is above the manager. Until the get themselves together all we can do it's just exist, and as the two dunderheads who followed Moyes here have proved that's not as easy as we'd like it to be.

 

[Papa Shango]

Moyes didn't have us were i wanted us to be but it was better then the position we were in for a decade before and better then were we've been ever since. Top four do as mean somthing and until it's surpassed it will remain our best league season. League wise it's our target most season or should be at any rate (Ye I know some will say the league sould be the target but let's be realistic).

If you want to juat ignore how grim things were pre Moyes then fine your entitled to do so but it's my opinion that saving us as he did isn't somthing to be dismissed as we've seen how far "big clubs" can fall these days.

Yes in the modern era clubs sack managers every other season and it's not a good thing imo. Not for the game and certainly not for the best majority of clubs.

This is good, we both want the same thing. Everton to win things and get back to the top were we belong. I'd argue however the the biggest stumbling block from that ever happening isn't our managers it's the people running is above the manager. Until the get themselves together all we can do it's just exist, and as the two dunderheads who followed Moyes here have proved that's not as easy as we'd like it to be.

Its funny because in a way I think Moyes is one of the worst things to happen to us as a club.

As I said I think he did fine for us but the negative attitude he installed in the club is still there to this day. We were allowed to dream a bit more in the past even when we were rubbish.

Top four means something for you, that's fine. I get it. It would mean something to me if we got a nice run in the Champions League from it but we didnt as we were faced with a big game and as per usual he lost the big game.

He did give us some pride back, I will give him that, at first anyway.

 

[marsh]

Come home Roberto

 

[Armel]

Lukaku will probably be rested against Cyprus. Yesterday was the first time he trained - he himself wants to play but Martinez doesn't want to take the risk of bringing Man U in further difficulty.

 

[Connor]

 

[Walken]

tubey?

 

[Aar_the_Toffees]

As much as I hate Moyes, what he achieved with the budget he has was nothing short of remarkable. I can't recall exactly but our wage and net transfer budget combined was something like 15th or 16th in the league, and he finished top 7 for 8 out of the 11 seasons, with 1 of the 3 being an 8th place finish. Not to mention that he actually made it to a final, unlike Martinez who was so proud of making it to two semi-finals.

I don't want him back at all, but it would've been interesting to see what he could do with a man like Moshiri in charge. Perhaps if Moyes' mentality changed, with money to back him, Everton could be top 4 regulars? Or at the very least we'd be a top 7 team which we are now.

 

[davek]

As much as I hate Moyes, what he achieved with the budget he has was nothing short of remarkable. I can't recall exactly but our wage and net transfer budget combined was something like 15th or 16th in the league, and he finished top 7 for 8 out of the 11 seasons, with 1 of the 3 being an 8th place finish. Not to mention that he actually made it to a final, unlike Martinez who was so proud of making it to two semi-finals.

I don't want him back at all, but it would've been interesting to see what he could do with a man like Moshiri in charge. Perhaps if Moyes' mentality changed, with money to back him, Everton could be top 4 regulars? Or at the very least we'd be a top 7 team which we are now.

I cant see that. We were never well backed under Kenwright but I think we operated around the 9th/10th spot financially and punched above our weight in 8 of Moyes 11 seasons.

The argument also with Moyes for me is that he had a decent net spend up until about 2009 before the fire sale commenced (I produced the data a while back to back that up); thereafter he was 'time rich', and was able to keep ploughing along the same methodological furrow while rebuilding again.

He did ok. Sure. But he spent big money when he got it on some pretty forgettable players, so i wouldn't make the connection between Moyes---> Money--->Success.

 

[davek]

Look I'm not saying he was a great manager or anything but he did a million times better then both Martinez and Koeman have done here. With the exception of Royle, nobody since Kendall in his first run has done better then Moyes so while I'd not call him a great manager I've got a lot more time for him then Moonface and El Fraudo.

Ha Ha Ha. You mentioned by mistake Kendall and Moyes in the same sentence there mate....oh....

Comparing that dour no mark in any way shape or form with our most decorated manager of all time. *sigh*

 

[davek]

Top four finish on a shoestring budget and only spent two seasons outside the top half of the premier league with us out of eleven seasons and never back to back. Somthing Martinez managed in three years. Reached a cup final (and we all know how impressive reaching semi finals are now apparently!) along with a few semi finals, built two good sides that he admittedly held back with his negitiveity. Brought in players who still play for us to this day (possibly because the two fools who followed him here are clueless). Most importantly he stopped us from doing what's since happend to Leeds, Villa and many others, he saved this club from self destruction and potentially years in the wilderness.

..we finished 17th in one season under him and he nearly killed us as stone dead as he went onto do with United and Sunderland.