Martinez new Belgium head coach

[hktoffee]

Explain to me how a playing getting a spate of serious injuries is in any way relevant to how good a player McCarthy is and why you are using it as a stick to beat Martinez with?

You can not account for injuries especially when the player had no injury issues before coming here. If he signed say Andy Carroll, a player with a history of injuries then that would be fair game but blaming Martinez for a player getting injured and still being here is incredibly unfair and reeks of having an agenda. I dont think you are getting what I am saying here because you keep coming up with the same thing about McCarthy and its ridiculous to be honest. Are you expecting managers to have a crystal ball or something?

Bolasie was a bad signing because he wasn't even that good before he came here. McCarthy was good before he came here and played well for us so they are really not comparable.

He got 4th once. Again though you are skewing the stats to make a point when you dont really have to. We regularly came 5th-8th maybe. Big deal. Moyes did get money to spend in places and he generally wasted it. He did indeed do well on a budget but he also had 11 years of stability which is incredibly rare in the modern era and we also paid our players fairly well, a lot of our spending money went on keeping our players at the club which is a good thing.

Mate, you rate McCarthy, I don’t. Doubt how many fans rate him, because of one season. For me, as a dm, Gana is what is called a good player and is always fit and available. He costed half of McCarthy. To pay £13m in 2013 on a lower half standard player was ridiculous at the time let alone extending his contract for five more years after one season. Look, he had major injuries of course but when he was not injured, he can’t get into the team (starter) under numerous full time and part time managers here. In what evidences do you believe he is not a bad signing for this club financially, given his fee was a whopping £13m back in 2013?

Moyes got 5th-7th most of the time with an average net spend of £2m-£3m, which was a big deal at that time knowing the club was a relegation battler before he took over. That’s why you can’t say Howe and Dyche were no different to Moyes.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You've said a lot of good things here but I feel the need to point out that Aaron Lennon was the catalyst for our mini-revival to steer clear of relegation in 2015 and because of that I will not allow his name to be slandered in any way. He's not a player who will be remembered as any kind of great for us but for 3 crucial months he was fantastic and probably saved us a lot of stress.

Yeah actually I really liked Lennon. Wish we’d got him in when Moyes was here. In my mind him and Osman saved us in 14/15. Considering how devoid of pace we were in 17/18 we arguably should have kept him longer.

 

[hktoffee]

Yeah Jimmy Mac was great before the injury woes and looked like a really shrewd signing from Martinez

Outside of Lukaku and Barry, McCarthy was probably Martinez's best signing. He could have had no idea about the injury issues on the horizon

Now, Alcaraz on the other hand...

Those two were great no doubt.

But just check out the list of other players there. Robles, McGeady, Kone, Cleverley, McCarthy, Niasse, Besic, Tarashaj, Funes Mori, Rodriguez, Alcaraz, Galloway etc.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Those two were great no doubt.

But just check out the list of other players there. Robles, McGeady, Kone, Cleverley, McCarthy, Niasse, Besic, Tarashaj, Funes Mori, Rodriguez, Alcaraz, Galloway etc.

McCarthy was a good signing, Martinez had no idea he'd get hurt, ditto for Besic

Alcaraz is the unforgivable one for me, as Martinez knew he was finished but signed him anyway because he wanted an enforcer in the dressing room. Jobs for the boys if there ever was

 

[hktoffee]

McCarthy was a good signing, Martinez had no idea he'd get hurt, ditto for Besic

Alcaraz is the unforgivable one for me, as Martinez knew he was finished but signed him anyway because he wanted an enforcer in the dressing room. Jobs for the boys if there ever was

Injury is not an excuse for the lad. He was fit and was loan out to Championship clubs for the last 2 years.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Injury is not an excuse for the lad. He was fit and was loan out to Championship clubs for the last 2 years.

Of course it is, he's not been the same since the injuries, which again you can't pin on Martinez

Besic impressed more than once for us, especially against City in the League Cup when he have Toure a torrid time of it

 

[Papa Shango]

Mate, you rate McCarthy, I don’t. Doubt how many fans rate him, because of one season. For me, as a dm, Gana is what is called a good player and is always fit and available. He costed half of McCarthy. To pay £13m in 2013 on a lower half standard player was ridiculous at the time let alone extending his contract for five more years after one season. Look, he had major injuries of course but when he was not injured, he can’t get into the team (starter) under numerous full time and part time managers here. In what evidences do you believe he is not a bad signing for this club financially, given his fee was a whopping £13m back in 2013?

Moyes got 5th-7th most of the time with an average net spend of £2m-£3m, which was a big deal at that time knowing the club was a relegation battler before he took over. That’s why you can’t say Howe and Dyche were no different to Moyes.

Why do you keep bringing up his injury record? That can not be accounted for when signing a player, what part of this are you not getting?

He was not given 5 more years, that would indicate he had a 1 year contract with is. He got an improved rate which is understandable as he was one of our best players that season.

In hindsight sure you can say it has not worked out, purely because he was hit with some horrific injuries. That is not what you are saying though is it? You are saying it was a bad signing because Martinez signed him and didn't have the ability to read the future. Do you think managers need to have this trait? A trait that does not actually exist?

He was a regular starter before his injuries. His injuries have seemingly destroyed him hence him not being able to get back in the side. The injuries change everything. And 13M was a fairly average price back then, stop exaggerating.

I love Gueye, McCarthy played a very similar role in his first season though and played it really well.

I don't care about net spend, we spent what money we had elsewhere by keeping players at the club by offering good salaries when deserved (like we did with McCarthy...). I can say Howe and Dyche are like Moyes because they are fairly steady managers who have won the grand sum of bugger all in their career. They are/were decent managers. That's all.

 

[Papa Shango]

Of course it is, he's not been the same since the injuries, which again you can't pin on Martinez

Besic impressed more than once for us, especially against City in the League Cup when he have Toure a torrid time of it

Besic has got a ton of talent. Sadly he lacks a bit of a brain on the pitch. He was deffo worth a go when we signed him with the hope of his bad habits being coached out of him whilst he was still young.

His waste of potential will always annoy me, up there with Billy Kenny.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Besic has got a ton of talent. Sadly he lacks a bit of a brain on the pitch. He was deffo worth a go when we signed him with the hope of his bad habits being coached out of him whilst he was still young.

His waste of potential will always annoy me, up there with Billy Kenny.

Yeah we got him comparatively cheap when compared to other signings and he had bags of potential. You can't knock Martinez for that one at all, it was a good spot on his part and well worth the punt

 

[hktoffee]

Why do you keep bringing up his injury record? That can not be accounted for when signing a player, what part of this are you not getting?

He was not given 5 more years, that would indicate he had a 1 year contract with is. He got an improved rate which is understandable as he was one of our best players that season.

In hindsight sure you can say it has not worked out, purely because he was hit with some horrific injuries. That is not what you are saying though is it? You are saying it was a bad signing because Martinez signed him and didn't have the ability to read the future. Do you think managers need to have this trait? A trait that does not actually exist?

He was a regular starter before his injuries. His injuries have seemingly destroyed him hence him not being able to get back in the side. The injuries change everything. And 13M was a fairly average price back then, stop exaggerating.

I love Gueye, McCarthy played a very similar role in his first season though and played it really well.

I don't care about net spend, we spent what money we had elsewhere by keeping players at the club by offering good salaries when deserved (like we did with McCarthy...). I can say Howe and Dyche are like Moyes because they are fairly steady managers who have won the grand sum of bugger all in their career. They are/were decent managers. That's all.

It’s quite simple there. First of all, I do not rate him like you do mate. Everything must be great in 2013/2014 season. Who wouldn’t? Ask Martinez. Afterthat, everything was being found out. He was pretty average in the following two years and like a normal average mid-table standard midfielder. Thus, I think spending £13m in the year 2013 was ridiculous because that will be like spending £35-£40m on the very same player given the inflation nowadays. £13m is 2013 was not a fairly average price. Tevez and Eriksen (each) were signed for less than £13m in the same summer.

If we get 5th and Brands/Silva need to give pay rise and extension to the starter, who was signed last summer then the account could be in trouble. There was absolutely no point of handling out extension when he’s one year into the original five year contract. Pretty much like the people up top can’t wait to give RM an extension after the first year. It was a mistake. Luckily, we have a proper director of footballer in place, such reckless and unwise decision on the financial side of the club will not happen again.

Furthermore, when he’s not injured in the past three seasons, you should recall that he can’t get into the team, under how many permanent managers here? Think it’s 3. During that time when he was in and out getting fit and injury...gave people impression that the only time he was available was playing for his national team...?

To focus on his only and best season and neglect the other five years at the club cannot showcase JM’s overall contribution to the team. It was like keep banging and saying RM was fantastic because of his first season and totally forget his below average 2nd and 3rd season here.

 

[BigMick]

The man singlehandedly destroyed the top 7 base of consistency that Moyes had created for us. In Moyes’ last two seasons he had to completely revamp the team from the depths of the 09 cruciate ligament crises and the subsequent sales of Arteta Lescott and Yakubu. He did this absolutely brilliantly bringing in Jelavic Naismith Mirallas Gibson Oviedo and Pienaar returning. He also started Barkley off and had just bought in Stones. In our last two seasons we finished ahead of Liverpool twice and would have been back in Europe if not for freak cup wins of Swansea and Wigan. The squad was full of strong experienced players like Jags Baines Coleman Heitinga Distin Fellaini Gibson Naismith Jelavic Osman Pienaar.

In the space of three seasons Martinez dismantled this with no logic whatsoever and left us with what I could only describe as a dads and lads squad of kids and geriatrics completely short of any kind of playmaking ability or pace. Creative talents such as Osman and Pienaar who had shone in Martinez’s first season were practically retired for the likes of Cleverley, Kone, Etoo, Deulofeu, Lennon or maybe any of Garbutt Besic Barkley Naismith Lukaku or whoever else he could shoehorn into a wide position (until relegation worries kicked in in 14/15 and he had to turn back to Osman to rescue us).

The football in 14/15 and 15/16 was some of the most turgid seen in the premier league by us (although Koeman showed we could sink even lower).

If Koeman well and truly cooked our Goose then Martinez went and prepared it for him. The two architects of our downfall. Two utter clowns who are a stain on the club. It is a testament to the work Moyes did at the club that neither of these fools were able to relegate us. That the likes of Osman Baines Coleman Jags Naismith kept the boat afloat at times when it looked as though we were going to completely capsize. That the academy Moyes developed chucked out a few decent kids to help us along through a few rough patches. That he gifted Stones and Barkley to Martinez.

If Roberto Martinez had walked through the door in 2002 instead of David Moyes we’d either be liquidated or in the conference now. The man is a snake oil salesman who could not manage his way out of a paper bag. He actually had the good fortune to stumble across a winning formula in 13/14: play my inept football in front of the solid defence I’ve been left, keep the scores level, then bring on the better players that I’ve benched to win the game. Yet was so stupid he then went and deviated from that in the two seasons after. Who can forget the two worst derby performances of our premier league history under him also.

No matter how bad things may seem at any point under Silva we are now leagues ahead of where we were in 14/15, 15/16, and 17/18.

Give this man a cigar!

 

[hktoffee]

The man singlehandedly destroyed the top 7 base of consistency that Moyes had created for us. In Moyes’ last two seasons he had to completely revamp the team from the depths of the 09 cruciate ligament crises and the subsequent sales of Arteta Lescott and Yakubu. He did this absolutely brilliantly bringing in Jelavic Naismith Mirallas Gibson Oviedo and Pienaar returning. He also started Barkley off and had just bought in Stones. In our last two seasons we finished ahead of Liverpool twice and would have been back in Europe if not for freak cup wins of Swansea and Wigan. The squad was full of strong experienced players like Jags Baines Coleman Heitinga Distin Fellaini Gibson Naismith Jelavic Osman Pienaar.

In the space of three seasons Martinez dismantled this with no logic whatsoever and left us with what I could only describe as a dads and lads squad of kids and geriatrics completely short of any kind of playmaking ability or pace. Creative talents such as Osman and Pienaar who had shone in Martinez’s first season were practically retired for the likes of Cleverley, Kone, Etoo, Deulofeu, Lennon or maybe any of Garbutt Besic Barkley Naismith Lukaku or whoever else he could shoehorn into a wide position (until relegation worries kicked in in 14/15 and he had to turn back to Osman to rescue us).

The football in 14/15 and 15/16 was some of the most turgid seen in the premier league by us (although Koeman showed we could sink even lower).

If Koeman well and truly cooked our Goose then Martinez went and prepared it for him. The two architects of our downfall. Two utter clowns who are a stain on the club. It is a testament to the work Moyes did at the club that neither of these fools were able to relegate us. That the likes of Osman Baines Coleman Jags Naismith kept the boat afloat at times when it looked as though we were going to completely capsize. That the academy Moyes developed chucked out a few decent kids to help us along through a few rough patches. That he gifted Stones and Barkley to Martinez.

If Roberto Martinez had walked through the door in 2002 instead of David Moyes we’d either be liquidated or in the conference now. The man is a snake oil salesman who could not manage his way out of a paper bag. He actually had the good fortune to stumble across a winning formula in 13/14: play my inept football in front of the solid defence I’ve been left, keep the scores level, then bring on the better players that I’ve benched to win the game. Yet was so stupid he then went and deviated from that in the two seasons after. Who can forget the two worst derby performances of our premier league history under him also.

No matter how bad things may seem at any point under Silva we are now leagues ahead of where we were in 14/15, 15/16, and 17/18.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[Papa Shango]

It’s quite simple there. First of all, I do not rate him like you do mate. Everything must be great in 2013/2014 season. Who wouldn’t? Ask Martinez. Afterthat, everything was being found out. He was pretty average in the following two years and like a normal average mid-table standard midfielder. Thus, I think spending £13m in the year 2013 was ridiculous because that will be like spending £35-£40m on the very same player given the inflation nowadays. £13m is 2013 was not a fairly average price. Tevez and Eriksen (each) were signed for less than £13m in the same summer.

If we get 5th and Brands/Silva need to give pay rise and extension to the starter, who was signed last summer then the account could be in trouble. There was absolutely no point of handling out extension when he’s one year into the original five year contract. Pretty much like the people up top can’t wait to give RM an extension after the first year. It was a mistake. Luckily, we have a proper director of footballer in place, such reckless and unwise decision on the financial side of the club will not happen again.

Furthermore, when he’s not injured in the past three seasons, you should recall that he can’t get into the team, under how many permanent managers here? Think it’s 3. During that time when he was in and out getting fit and injury...gave people impression that the only time he was available was playing for his national team...?

To focus on his only and best season and neglect the other five years at the club cannot showcase JM’s overall contribution to the team. It was like keep banging and saying RM was fantastic because of his first season and totally forget his below average 2nd and 3rd season here.

I don't know what more I can say. He was a good signing at the time who did well and then got injured. This is nobodies fault and nobody should be getting slated for signing him as you can't account for injuries especially for a player who was not injured often before coming here. It was not a mistake to give him an improved contract (the manager generally wouldn't do this anyway...) as nobody can forsee the future.

I do recall him not getting back in the team, because he had a bloody broken leg! These things can really damage a player, it has obviously affected him and destroyed his career. Again though, nobody can read the future.

The national team stuff is nonsense. He was picked and played. He was available here and was not picked, probably because Everton have a stronger squad of players to choose from than Ireland.

It was unfortunate but you are looking for someone to blame for some reason.

I give up. Your agenda is not very nice.

 

[summerisle]

@davek finally gets to meet Bobby.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Yeah actually I really liked Lennon. Wish we’d got him in when Moyes was here. In my mind him and Osman saved us in 14/15. Considering how devoid of pace we were in 17/18 we arguably should have kept him longer.

Lennon leaving was a shame, but we weren't going to give him the minutes he wanted so it was inevitable. Koeman was almost always positive about him