Martinez new Belgium head coach

[Black Belt Jones]

And yet here you are in July of 2018 banging on about it. I find that really weird to be honest.

We could be linked with a back-up left back from Albania and that would get 1000 posts on the forum, yet it's really weird to talk about a recent ex-manager who was here for three seasons, who we're probably still paying off, and whose legacy blights the club to this day? OK mate.

It is sad that we can take our pick of failures to discuss, but prominent Everton success stories are slim pickings. I mean it would be great if we could all sit around eulogising about our generation's Alan Ball and Howard Kendall, but that's Everton for you.

 

[ilikecheese]

We could be linked with a back-up left back from Albania and that would get 1000 posts on the forum, yet it's really weird to talk about a recent ex-manager who was here for three seasons, who we're probably still paying off, and whose legacy blights the club to this day? OK mate.

It is sad that we can take our pick of failures to discuss, but prominent Everton success stories are slim pickings. I mean it would be great if we could all sit around eulogising about our generation's Alan Ball and Howard Kendall, but that's Everton for you.

It's the over the top effort to discredit the man that I find utterly strange. No problem discussing any of our old managers/players.

It's the ad nauseum effort by a few people on here to smear the man at even the mere suggestion he did or has done anything well, beyond a tiny window in 2013-14, that I find obsessive and weird.

 

[flibbyflob]

It's the over the top effort to discredit the man that I find utterly strange. No problem discussing any of our old managers/players.

It's the ad nauseum effort by a few people on here to smear the man at even the mere suggestion he did or has done anything well, beyond a tiny window in 2013-14, that I find obsessive and weird.

It is a fact though, he had a squad HE assembled in seasons 2 and 3 in charge and failed. That is the reality of it. It isn't over the top to say he failed, yes he didn't have the money that Koeman had but he had far more than Moyes who was a much more successful manager in his time here.

 

[davek]

It is a fact though, he had a squad HE assembled in seasons 2 and 3 in charge and failed. That is the reality of it. It isn't over the top to say he failed, yes he didn't have the money that Koeman had but he had far more than Moyes who was a much more successful manager in his time here.

He succeeded and he failed. You and others miss out the succeeded part. I think that's what @ilikecheese is telling you. And he's right.

Anyway, this battle is won.

 

[brieverton]

I think Martinez will stay with Belgium, there doesn't appear to be any pressure for him to leave.

The Brazil result is probably enough to ensure he keeps the job anyway, I think he has done just about enough whilst there will be obvious disappointment in not progressing.

I'm certainly not one for revisionism, and he absolutely had to be relieved of his duties with us, but I have to say I like him a lot. If only he had shown more pragmatism. He at least offered us a glimpse of how things might have been, unlike the recent procession of rubbish we have had to endure.

 

[flibbyflob]

He succeeded and he failed. You and others miss out the succeeded part. I think that's what @ilikecheese is telling you. And he's right.

Anyway, this battle is won.

If one step forward and two back is winning then god help you.

 

[davek]

I think Martinez will stay with Belgium, there doesn't appear to be any pressure for him to leave.

The Brazil result is probably enough to ensure he keeps the job anyway, I think he has done just about enough whilst there will be obvious disappointment in not progressing.

I'm certainly not one for revisionism, and he absolutely had to be relieved of his duties with us, but I have to say I like him a lot. If only he had shown more pragmatism. He at least offered us a glimpse of how things might have been, unlike the recent procession of rubbish we have had to endure.

Pressure will be coming from the opposite direction. The Belgian FA have little chance holding onto him and will want compensation, hence their handing him a two year extension before the WC started.

RM will be at a club before the season starts IMO. Henry would look to be his successor.

 

[davek]

If one step forward and two back is winning then god help you.

No mate, it's this simple: the failure of finishing midtable for two of the three seasons he was here is balanced out by the great first season and the cup runs we had at home and in Europe...and the football we played when we were on song.

That seems a fair assessment. Sadly there are people who wont or cant handle that even handed assessment. But they are irrelevant now anyway, having been made to look like fools in this World Cup.

 

[Mickey]

In hindsight it was probably wrong to get Henry involved. I doubt Martinez had a say but he should have fought tooth and nail to make sure he wasn't hired. An actual legend and a person the players looked up to, undermined an already beleaguered Bobby. With your best players like KDB, Hazard and Rom ignoring you and going to Henry for advice and guidance must have been hard to take. Not Bobbys fault I blame the Belg FA, it would take a stronger personality than him to keep those egos in check.

 

[BigMick]

Unless a reasonably big club comes in for him I'm pretty sure he'll stay on with Belgium. However, after the emotion of their semi-final defeat dissipates, the harsh reality is they their 'golden generation' will know that they missed their best chance of winning the ultimate prize: tournament in Europe, they all had WC experience from 4 years earlier, most of them in or around the peak of their careers, everyone fit and in form, Germany, Argentina, Spain, Portugal all knocked out, Italy not even in it.
Then a great win over Brazil left only France as serious opposition but they blew it. The much criticised Deschamps totally outwitting Roberto - Lukaku snuffed out, Hazard, after a great opening half hour, forced to retreat to the halfway line in order to touch the ball, Belgium constantly caught on the break, another Roberto team conceding from a set-piece; "We were only beaten by a set-piece goal," said Roberto afterwards, the kind of utterance we became used to at Goodison, suggesting that might be one lesson that he's not learned from his time here. By the end, with better finishing, it could have been 3-0.

I've no idea whether it was Roberto or Henry calling the shots, or the senior players for that matter. There's often rumours of that sort at World Cups, including some teams that won it, let alone failed. He deserves credit for the win over Brazil but not much else.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

No mate, it's this simple: the failure of finishing midtable for two of the three seasons he was here is balanced out by the great first season and the cup runs we had at home and in Europe...and the football we played when we were on song.

That seems a fair assessment. Sadly there are people who wont or cant handle that even handed assessment. But they are irrelevant now anyway, having been made to look like fools in this World Cup.

You forget that by cratering the team in his third year he actually set the stage for Koeman - handed him a mandate as they say in politics. Because RM's methods were so discredited, the club lurched to the right and gave Koeman free rein to bring a new broom in. This proved in time to be an even bigger disaster than Bobby as we all know.
Now Koeman's awfulness is nothing to do with Martinez, obv, but it shows you how failure in football doesn't happen in isolation. RM taking us down to the cellar of the premier league had very serious repercussions that we still haven't recovered from to this day.

 

[The binman chronicles]

But they are irrelevant now anyway, having been made to look like fools in this World Cup.

Erm...yes he joins such managerial luminaries as Gareth Southgate and Chris Coleman in getting to a Semi Final of a recent major international tournament. Given the respective squad strengths I know who I consider to have done the least out of that lot. One half decent game against Brazil, which come the end was still a backs to the wall job does little to prove anymore than we already know about him.

 

[davek]

You forget that by cratering the team in his third year he actually set the stage for Koeman - handed him a mandate as they say in politics. Because RM's methods were so discredited, the club lurched to the right and gave Koeman free rein to bring a new broom in. This proved in time to be an even bigger disaster than Bobby as we all know.
Now Koeman's awfulness is nothing to do with Martinez, obv, but it shows you how failure in football doesn't happen in isolation. RM taking us down to the cellar of the premier league had very serious repercussions that we still haven't recovered from to this day.

That's a strange reading of Koeman's first season. He came in and acted like a nobhead and has us playing hoofball up until Christmas, then he lost hoofball's outlet (Bolasie) through injury and then just allowed the players to play from back to front from that point - as they'd been taught under Martinez - and we ended up 7th.

 

[davek]

Erm...yes he joins such managerial luminaries as Gareth Southgate and Chris Coleman in getting to a Semi Final of a recent major international tournament. Given the respective squad strengths I know who I consider to have done the least out of that lot. One half decent game against Brazil, which come the end was still a backs to the wall job does little to prove anymore than we already know about him.

Coleman was in the Euros; Southgate had an easy path to his SF.

RM's achievement in getting to a WC SF outranks both of them.

 

[BigMick]

Coleman was in the Euros; Southgate had an easy path to his SF.

RM's achievement in getting to a WC SF outranks both of them.

Means nothing: Bert Van Mawijk did even better in 2010, beating Japan, Denmark, Cameroon, Slovakia, Brazil and Uruguay before losing to Spain in the final. Since then his jobs have been in Saudi Arabia and Australia.
In 2014, Van Gaal's Dutch team saw off Chile, Spain, Australia, Mexico, Costa Rica before losing to Alex Sabella's Argentina in the semis on penalties.

A one-off win against Brazil doesn't make a great manager. Southgate did better taking a limited and inexperienced squad to the same stage as Bobby did with Belgium's 'Golden Generation' in their prime.