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Martinez new Belgium head coach

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BigMick said:
Means nothing: Bert Van Mawijk did even better in 2010, beating Japan, Denmark, Cameroon, Slovakia, Brazil and Uruguay before losing to Spain in the final. Since then his jobs have been in Saudi Arabia and Australia.
In 2014, Van Gaal's Dutch team saw off Chile, Spain, Australia, Mexico, Costa Rica before losing to Alex Sabella's Argentina in the semis on penalties.

A one-off win against Brazil doesn't make a great manager. Southgate did better taking a limited and inexperienced squad to the same stage as Bobby did with Belgium's 'Golden Generation' in their prime.
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But no one post WC turned to those managers efforts and said they were "lucky" or a "fraud" did they? That's the issue.

Those who say that about RM are clearly wrong and devoid of credibility....and they know it. Which is nice.
 
This "golden generation" and respective squad strength stuff is a bit daft.

I am sure Germany, Spain and Brazil all thought they had great respective squad strength.

It doesn't matter who you have in your squad, it's how far you get.
 
Papa Shango said:
This "golden generation" and respective squad strength stuff is a bit daft.

I am sure Germany, Spain and Brazil all thought they had great respective squad strength.

It doesn't matter who you have in your squad, it's how far you get.
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...can also often be harder to control such a squad and impose your plan on them. It must be like herding cats to get the egos on display in that Belgian team to face in the same direction and play as a unit. Wilmots couldn't do it.
 
davek said:
But no one post WC turned to those managers efforts and said they were "lucky" or a "fraud" did they? That's the issue.

Those who say that about RM are clearly wrong and devoid of credibility....and they know it. Which is nice.
Click to expand...


I've never called Roberto a 'fraud', which is silly, and the only thing lucky about his Belgium tenure has been the draw he had in qualifying, when Greece were the next highest rated team and duly finished 2nd, and in the group stages, same as England.

I've not got the faintest idea whether any Dutch forums used those terms about Bert or Louis. I do know they both received a lot of criticism, for instance, from The Independent , Bert was involved in a furious exchange with Dutch journalists following a narrow win over Japan (sound familiar?). Van Gaal was regularly pilloried.

davek said:
...can also often be harder to control such a squad and impose your plan on them. It must be like herding cats to get the egos on display in that Belgian team to face in the same direction and play as a unit. Wilmots couldn't do it.
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Reached quarter-finals, before losing narrowly to Argentina, with a much less experienced team: I'm sure you'd agree that the likes of Lukaku, Hazard and De Bruyne are much better and more experienced than they were 4 years ago. Wilmots wasn't great, but neither is the 'maestro'.
 

BigMick said:
I've never called Roberto a 'fraud', which is silly, and the only thing lucky about his Belgium tenure has been the draw he had in qualifying, when Greece were the next highest rated team and duly finished 2nd, and in the group stages, same as England.

I've not got the faintest idea whether any Dutch forums used those terms about Bert or Louis. I do know they both received a lot of criticism, for instance, from The Independent , Bert was involved in a furious exchange with Dutch journalists following a narrow win over Japan (sound familiar?). Van Gaal was regularly pilloried.




Reached quarter-finals, before losing narrowly to Argentina, with a much less experienced team: I'm sure you'd agree that the likes of Lukaku, Hazard and De Bruyne are much better and more experienced than they were 4 years ago. Wilmots wasn't great, but neither is the 'maestro'.
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Wilmots' team collapsed in the last WC when facing their first big opponent, Argentina. They struggled past the USA only A.E.T. and played dire football. The last Euros they played better but went out in the QFs to Wales! He underachieved. I would say Belgium getting to the SFs via Brazil and only being denied a final spot after a tight match against what will be the eventual winners is Martinez slightly over-achieving. Chatting to our resident Belgian expert @Armel prior to the WC, that was the scenario he said he'd consider as satisfactory and a tournament marked by progression.
 
davek said:
Wilmots' team collapsed in the last WC when facing their first big opponent, Argentina. They struggled past the USA only A.E.T. and played dire football. The last Euros they played better but went out in the QFs to Wales! He underachieved. I would say Belgium getting to the SFs via Brazil and only being denied a final spot after a tight match against what will be the eventual winners is Martinez slightly over-achieving. Chatting to our resident Belgian expert @Armel prior to the WC, that was the scenario he said he'd consider as satisfactory and a tournament marked by progression.
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He's a very generous soul :)
 
deipnosophist said:
It's now pretty much accepted as a given that Bainesy and Capt Jags were the ring-leaders in plotting Roberto's downfall. My question is this though : did Bainesy and Capt Jags also play a back-stabbing role in forcing Samuel Eto'o to depart Everton so quickly.? Eto'o, you would think, has been around the traps long enough to recognise quality managers, so the only conclusion I can draw regarding his not sticking with Roberto, is that chief snides Bainesy and Capt Jags forced him out of the club.
What do you guys think? Why did Eto'o leave so quickly ?
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I also wonder about Howard's role.
 
deipnosophist said:
It's now pretty much accepted as a given that Bainesy and Capt Jags were the ring-leaders in plotting Roberto's downfall. My question is this though : did Bainesy and Capt Jags also play a back-stabbing role in forcing Samuel Eto'o to depart Everton so quickly.? Eto'o, you would think, has been around the traps long enough to recognise quality managers, so the only conclusion I can draw regarding his not sticking with Roberto, is that chief snides Bainesy and Capt Jags forced him out of the club.
What do you guys think? Why did Eto'o leave so quickly ?
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I thought Eto'o was one of those people who didn't stay at clubs for very long, and he left because he thought Roberto was crap, but who knows.

I had no idea Jags was so evil though. And Baines is his Lady Macbeth. lol
 
Black Belt Jones said:
You forget that by cratering the team in his third year he actually set the stage for Koeman - handed him a mandate as they say in politics. Because RM's methods were so discredited, the club lurched to the right and gave Koeman free rein to bring a new broom in. This proved in time to be an even bigger disaster than Bobby as we all know.
Now Koeman's awfulness is nothing to do with Martinez, obv, but it shows you how failure in football doesn't happen in isolation. RM taking us down to the cellar of the premier league had very serious repercussions that we still haven't recovered from to this day.
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Tbf to Koeman he took over a team that Bobby had in 14th place with one of the worst home records in recent memory and made us a force at home again and took us to 7th. OK the football wasn't great but fans could actually go the game again with some hope of a result. Alas his heart wasn't in it I feel, coupled with the abomination of two bosses in him and Walsh buying players separately, it was a recipe for disaster. But I'd agree that Bobbys tenure has had the most lasting effect.
 


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