2020/21 Mason Holgate

[UptheTofees]

Yep baffles me too.. I rate our back 4 as a whole and feel as good as almost any in the EPL but we kept shipping goals.. I have put this down to poor possession in midfield more than defensive frailties. The more Holgate plays the better he will get. Last year was a clear starter for England in my opinion.. I felt he was up with the best English CBs in the league... I'm sure he will get back to that.

Yeah I think it's a collective issue. We give the ball away far too often and have not yet found the right mix to bring balance to the midfield. That should be pur priority right now. We got 4 very capable CBs not counting the young guy who is injured.

 

[Toffeelover]

James in for Sigurdsson to increase our creativity. Digne at left back and Godfrey to replace one of the centrebacks. That allows Digne to do his thing going forward but gives us pace on that side of the defence. Holgate to remain at right back and keep that side locked down. Could be an ideal balance for us if Digne doesn’t go crazy.

Sorry Mate, but pointless post. we need to think of team now not some time late next year when Digne has recovered.

 

[ElGato]

Good post that.

There are a couple of cavaets. The first being that he has just turned 24, so still has room to improve, with the team. I also think his lapses in concentration have got worse.

Re Harvey Barnes, I think he is quite highly rated, I didn't see all the game but looks as if he gave as good as he got. The week before, I didn't think he gave Werner and then Abraham much of a sniff.

The concern you'd have is in the air. He doesn't win many headers, which is a big part of being a CB in this league. I wonder if his best position may be nailing down a slot at rught back.

It's odd really, but he's the sort of player that a Manchester United had back in the day. Great attitude and could play a number of positions and would never let you down. Players like that are invaluable.

Ta bbe

You're right I'm probably underselling Harvey Barnes there. He's lightning isn't he and causes quite a few defenders trouble.

I agree re: Mason at RB. I'd only want to play him CB if you had a classic ball-winning centre half next to him who had bags of experience and could talk him through a game. Same goes for Godfrey and I find it a bit strange that people see them playing in the same back two in the future, think they are both competing for the same role.

Nowadays it's imperative that every player plays or is at least comfortable in two positions or so. Not just in terms of the fluidity of formation during the game, but also in terms of understanding what your colleague is dealing with and their movements and motivations. You see it amongst all the best teams, but none more so at Bayern who have mastered the art of it.

I'm really excited to see Carlo begin to instill this in the squad - c.f. developing Iwobi's defensive game at RWB. Right back, CDM and CB seems to be a good portfolio as well - really develops a defensive mindset and improves concentration levels. Hoping that both Holdgate's and Godfrey's game improves off the back of this.

 

[dan7787]

I am not sure what I want when Coleman and Digne are fit again. At the moment we look solid. Bring back Coleman and digne and Yes we can get them attacking again thus weakening us again at the back. Spaces will appear again with Mina and Kean attempting to plug but getting dragged out from usual positions. It is a knock on affect that creates holes everywhere.

Being solid at the back then restricts our forward play and we then create less chances.
Solid back 4 and we concede possession and create less but stay in control of our shape.
Coleman and Digne great attacking full backs will help us create chances but expose us at the back.

Like I said. I don't know which I prefer.
At least with the solid back 4 with Carlo we are not defending for the sake of defending and still attempting to find ways of scoring rather than an alamo attitude. We are still trying to play football.

I'd bring them both straight back in, we've really missed Coleman and Digne's attacking play. Carry on with 4 at the back because we've messed up trying to play 3 at the back. Time to try Holgate and Godfrey at the back.

 

[PITA]

Give over. It's not like I'm DMing him on insta and giving him grief. I genuinely think he's a good player. He is. He's quick, committed and aggressive. I think he's a great option in the squad, plays 3 or 4 positions and always gives 100%. Just what you want

I just don't think he's that good. On the ball can be lackadaisical and prone to lapses in concentration in and around the box. Also very 'Everton that' to cherish attitude over quality on the ball. The players who suffer confidence issues aren't those like Mason Holdgate, who the fans are well into. They're players like Ademola Lookman or Moise Kean. Genuine talent who don't fit the Everton brief. Which is fine. It is possible to do both - talent on the ball and work hard - and there's nothing wrong with demanding that.

Either way I thought Harvey Barnes had him on hot bread on Wednesday. Is Harvey Barnes that good? Also lost Vardy for the header, probably should have been a goal.

I wasn’t really talking about GOT and other social media. I was referring to the average mindset of Blues compared to RS fans. They have a winning attitude that is reflected across the whole club. We don’t.

 

[Lanolin]

I wasn’t really talking about GOT and other social media. I was referring to the average mindset of Blues compared to RS fans. They have a winning attitude that is reflected across the whole club. We don’t.

I don't really see how those things marry up to be honest. It's just putting 2 and 2 together to get 5. You're responding to a post in which someone is effectively saying 'I think he's a very good player but not good enough to be a starter if we want to win things' by saying that's not a winning attitude. It is though isn't it? Like, it's the very definition of it. If anything it would reflect an inflated sense of entitlement, impossible standards, 'NSNO' if you will. Making out like all our players are amazing even when we struggle to break into the top half would surely be evidence that we're just easily pleased, and therefore don't have a 'winning mentality' at all.

 

[catcherintherye]

Ta bbe

You're right I'm probably underselling Harvey Barnes there. He's lightning isn't he and causes quite a few defenders trouble.

I agree re: Mason at RB. I'd only want to play him CB if you had a classic ball-winning centre half next to him who had bags of experience and could talk him through a game. Same goes for Godfrey and I find it a bit strange that people see them playing in the same back two in the future, think they are both competing for the same role.

Nowadays it's imperative that every player plays or is at least comfortable in two positions or so. Not just in terms of the fluidity of formation during the game, but also in terms of understanding what your colleague is dealing with and their movements and motivations. You see it amongst all the best teams, but none more so at Bayern who have mastered the art of it.

I'm really excited to see Carlo begin to instill this in the squad - c.f. developing Iwobi's defensive game at RWB. Right back, CDM and CB seems to be a good portfolio as well - really develops a defensive mindset and improves concentration levels. Hoping that both Holdgate's and Godfrey's game improves off the back of this.

Great points.

I think the last one is particularly true as well. If you have a number of versatile players in your squad, you can actually get away with a smaller squad, and have the options of making changes within the game.

 

[royvernon39]

I would like him to see if he could do it in midfield. He's got the legs and legs is what
Gomes does not offer plus he gets stuck in. He did ok when he played there before.
As the central midfielder Doucoure could play box to box and Gilfi would be able to play
closer to Calvert-Lewin.

I do not see Holgate as a central defender. Not strong enough, not good enough in the air
and prone to mistakes.

 

[Rooney_Tunes]

I would like him to see if he could do it in midfield. He's got the legs and legs is what
Gomes does not offer plus he gets stuck in. He did ok when he played there before.
As the central midfielder Doucoure could play box to box and Gilfi would be able to play
closer to Calvert-Lewin.

I do not see Holgate as a central defender. Not strong enough, not good enough in the air
and prone to mistakes.

I agree with all of that; including the Iceland bit which for me is very weird.

 

[MikeH72]

Give over. It's not like I'm DMing him on insta and giving him grief. I genuinely think he's a good player. He is. He's quick, committed and aggressive. I think he's a great option in the squad, plays 3 or 4 positions and always gives 100%. Just what you want

I just don't think he's that good. On the ball can be lackadaisical and prone to lapses in concentration in and around the box. Also very 'Everton that' to cherish attitude over quality on the ball. The players who suffer confidence issues aren't those like Mason Holdgate, who the fans are well into. They're players like Ademola Lookman or Moise Kean. Genuine talent who don't fit the Everton brief. Which is fine. It is possible to do both - talent on the ball and work hard - and there's nothing wrong with demanding that.

Either way I thought Harvey Barnes had him on hot bread on Wednesday. Is Harvey Barnes that good? Also lost Vardy for the header, probably should have been a goal.

Harvey Barnes is good tbh yeah, and one nutmeg doesn’t mean he had him on hot bread.

 

[zzr45]

Essentially a defensive Leon Osman, can fill slots whenever needed, which is no bad thing...

 

[PhilM]

Essentially a defensive Leon Osman, can fill slots whenever needed, which is no bad thing...

The most partisan comparison you can make: it either means you rate him or he's absolute dog turd as there was no middle ground with Osman.

There was a fan who I sat near a few years ago who'd shout obscenities at Osman even if he gave a MOTM performance.

 

[zzr45]

The most partisan comparison you can make: it either means you rate him or he's absolute dog turd as there was no middle ground with Osman.

There was a fan who I sat near a few years ago who'd shout obscenities at Osman even if he gave a MOTM performance.

He was always capable of something, much like Holgate is.

 

[PITA]

I don't really see how those things marry up to be honest. It's just putting 2 and 2 together to get 5. You're responding to a post in which someone is effectively saying 'I think he's a very good player but not good enough to be a starter if we want to win things' by saying that's not a winning attitude. It is though isn't it? Like, it's the very definition of it. If anything it would reflect an inflated sense of entitlement, impossible standards, 'NSNO' if you will. Making out like all our players are amazing even when we struggle to break into the top half would surely be evidence that we're just easily pleased, and therefore don't have a 'winning mentality' at all.

Clearly I think that Holgate is better than the original poster thinks he is.
However, my point really is that we don’t need to have the best 11 players in the world. We just need to have the players that think they are the best 11 players. This is what I think Klopp has achieved. For example Henderson is a very average player but he struts around as if he owns the pitch. Wijnaldum is OK, TAA can’t defend but he thinks the sun shines out of his backside. The eighties Everton team were struggling massively then ‘something’ happened all of a sudden. Maybe it was the arrival of Andy Gray/Trevor Steven but all of a sudden we became worldbeaters. Confidence and belief can take you a long way.

 

[ElGato]

Harvey Barnes is good tbh yeah, and one nutmeg doesn’t mean he had him on hot bread.

I mean we cut the supply line into Maddison and, in turn, Harvey - so he didn't have much to work with. And in the main part the winger came back to double up on him, with one of the CBs or Doucoure covering the space behind Mason - so little chance of a kick and go. Really good team defending.

But fronted Mason up twice and got by him. Diddled him in the first encounter as well. Mason would have got booked if he brought him down - and certainly tried to.

Not toast, but definitely hot bread