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2020/21 Mason Holgate

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PITA said:
Clearly I think that Holgate is better than the original poster thinks he is.
However, my point really is that we don’t need to have the best 11 players in the world. We just need to have the players that think they are the best 11 players. This is what I think Klopp has achieved. For example Henderson is a very average player but he struts around as if he owns the pitch. Wijnaldum is OK, TAA can’t defend but he thinks the sun shines out of his backside. The eighties Everton team were struggling massively then ‘something’ happened all of a sudden. Maybe it was the arrival of Andy Gray/Trevor Steven but all of a sudden we became worldbeaters. Confidence and belief can take you a long way.
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Yeah it's just something I don't really believe in. Belief and attitude can get you to a point, but your ceiling is your ceiling. It's not a helpful attitude in either football or general life in my opinion, and it explains why every time we hit a rough patch the default reaction is to immediately blame lack of effort rather than accepting that we're actually lacking in quality. I hate the reds as much as anyone but I think you're underselling a couple of their players there tbh. You don't win the league and CL just by thinking you're good, you have to actually be good. Until Klopp takes over a team in League One and uses these same jedi mind tricks to turn them into CL winners, I'm afraid i'm not going to be convinced otherwise.
 
Lanolin said:
Yeah it's just something I don't really believe in. Belief and attitude can get you to a point, but your ceiling is your ceiling. It's not a helpful attitude in either football or general life in my opinion, and it explains why every time we hit a rough patch the default reaction is to immediately blame lack of effort rather than accepting that we're actually lacking in quality. I hate the reds as much as anyone but I think you're underselling a couple of their players there tbh. You don't win the league and CL just by thinking you're good, you have to actually be good. Until Klopp takes over a team in League One and uses these same jedi mind tricks to turn them into CL winners, I'm afraid i'm not going to be convinced otherwise.
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Yeah I'm with you on this. Henderson is not a player who can do everything but Klopp is the first manager who has only really asked him to do what he's good at. Same for Wijnaldum really. So even if maybe on an individual level those guys are overrated, they aren't in their function within the team. They're really good at what they do.

We don't have that as much. Although tbf when we've played a back four this year we are closer to the top in terms of ability than we've been in a long time, but still there is a gap.

I guess this is pretty off topic so I'll apply this to Holgate. He's decent and he certainly tries. It's why people think he should play midfield but he doesn't have the skillset for that and determination alone won't fix it against better teams.
 
catcherintherye said:
Good post that.

There are a couple of cavaets. The first being that he has just turned 24, so still has room to improve, with the team. I also think his lapses in concentration have got worse.

Re Harvey Barnes, I think he is quite highly rated, I didn't see all the game but looks as if he gave as good as he got. The week before, I didn't think he gave Werner and then Abraham much of a sniff.

The concern you'd have is in the air. He doesn't win many headers, which is a big part of being a CB in this league. I wonder if his best position may be nailing down a slot at rught back.

It's odd really, but he's the sort of player that a Manchester United had back in the day. Great attitude and could play a number of positions and would never let you down. Players like that are invaluable.
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i think he needs to paired with a big fella at CB like, not sure if him and godfrey would work for that reason, better suited alongside keane or mina
 

I’m sure Coleman is still some time off being able to play every game but once he’s back and fit I’d be very open to Holgate getting a run in the team as a CDM in the Alan styled role.
 

I would rather him pass back and recycle than hit the ball down the line and not give away possesion. The back 4 are looking better on the ball. Even when pressed. Just stay patient and the opening will come.
 

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