2021/22 Nathan Patterson

[MACCA75]

Id start him RWB
He makes players commit, would make things a lot easier for Gordon, open space up completely

Will have a RCB behind him for the supposed defensive weaknesses

Please god no more 3/5 at the back. It has never worked at this football club.

 

[roy vernon]

Well if that happens it will contradict all that Lampard has said about Patterson...and it wont be me being wrong it'll be a massive u-turn on the part of the manager.

I dont see that happening any time soon.

In the meantime we have to dial this hype down a level of three. He isn't a FB in a million years. As I said above, outside of a handful of top European teams who dont need FBs to be FBs in domestic games - they just play them as attackers - I've never seen a FB play this high up the pitch...and certainly not for Everton.

I think the clue to his development as a FB in that fashion is that he played for one of two clubs in Scotland where FBs could be deployed in that way domestically because, apart from one other team, they could afford to place a FB in the opposition half and hardly have to call upon them to defend as the quality of opposition are so poor. (Tierney took years at Celtic to add both dimensions of attack and defence to his game...and he had seasons in Euro competitions to practice that...unlike Patterson who was hardly in rangers' first team)

He makes no sense to me as a PL FB. And that's what his managers down here have decided too.

We won't know unless he plays. Can it get worse than conceding 9 in 2 away games?

 

[davek]

…..not sure what you mean regarding him playing high up the pitch.

I watched him in the Old Firm game and a couple of Scotland games where he was a conventional full back and he defended from the back line. This was also the case in the U23 game he played at Southport where he got a few crucial blocks in his own area.

Do you mean he attacks and can’t get back when teams break? Remember us at Chelsea under Martinez when we were leading late on and our furthest player up the pitch was our RB. One long ball from Fabrigas and we were caught at the back because Baines was also missing on the other side.

Benitez wanted both full backs to ‘stay at home’, Martinez encourage both to attack, usually if one goes forward in open play the other sits in & CBs fill the void. Saying that, Kenny in particular finds himself in no-man’s land, he’s totally out of the game when the ball goes beyond him. Kenny neither defends or attacks to any great degree.

Whilst the continued decision to not give Patterson game time is totally bewildering, I think the biggest issue relating to full-backs was the decision to sell Digne. It’s left us in a right mess, not least because Mykolenko is nowhere near a capable replacement. The team is so much weaker and unbalanced for his absence. Madness.

I think youlre misremembering what Martinez expected of FBs. He wanted us to get a FB down the line to double up on an isolated opposition defender but he expected a FBs contribution out of them defensively speaking. Much of our games away relied on us keeping shape and playing in a counter attack. That system would find Patterson wanting.

But yes, part of his problem is transitioning from attack to defence. Kenny failed at this in his first spell here and when he was loaned to Schalke. He was fine going forward but incapable of getting back in position when attacks broke down. Kenny today is used more as a defender than attacker....partly because we have a lot of wide men in the first team squad.

 

[davek]

We won't know unless he plays. Can it get worse than conceding 9 in 2 away games?

It can get worse or better, depending on whether the manager is learning lessons about not being too ambitious away from home. And you dont turn to an all out attacking 'defender' if you have learned that lesson.

In short: he's exactly the wrong type of option we need right now. The general consensus on this forum (one I agree with) is that we have to make ourselves tight and tough to beat in order to survive. The defence needs protecting; that means we cant be having one of that defence AWOL during games.

Leave the attacking possibilities to Richarlison, Gray and Gordon.

 

[BigDuncTributeBand]

I'd honestly give him a try against West Ham, we're conceding for fun away from home, so he will hardly weaken us defensively, conceded 9 in our last 2 away games,. I just feel that his pace would give opposing teams something to think about. I'd also play Godfrey at left back and bring in Branthwaite alongside Keane in a back 4. If nothing else we would have pace down either flank, which would give West Ham something to think about.

If it doesn't work out, the probability was that we would lose this game anyway and it would, at least, have given Coleman rest and given Patterson a chance to show us if he really is as bad defensively as @davek would have us believe.

He’s definitely not as bad defensively as that, it’s just one persons agenda. Ignore. He’s a young fullback, not many young defenders are ready made and will make mistakes. All the rangers fans I know say he loves a tackle and is good 1v1 - like all young players can improve positionally and will get caught out from time to time but that’s how you learn/improve. He’s definitely not just a winger that’s ridiculous but he’s inexperienced, sure.

 

[roy vernon]

It can get worse or better, depending on whether the manager is learning lessons about not being too ambitious away from home. And you dont turn to an all out attacking 'defender' if you have learned that lesson.

In short: he's exactly the wrong type of option we need right now. The general consensus on this forum (one I agree with) is that we have to make ourselves tight and tough to beat in order to survive. The defence needs protecting; that means we cant be having one of that defence AWOL during games.

Leave the attacking possibilities to Richarlison, Gray and Gordon.

Or, give a full back who is quick enough to recover when an attack breaks down. You will not know what his defending is like at this level until he plays.

Anything you says pure conjecture as he has not played a league game for us. I don't know if he is good enough either, but,I will not judge him until he has had a game in the prem. I havehowever had enough opportunities to judge Kenny

 

[Joey66]

Or, give a full back who is quick enough to recover when an attack breaks down. You will not know what his defending is like at this level until he plays.

Anything you says pure conjecture as he has not played a league game for us. I don't know if he is good enough either, but,I will not judge him until he has had a game in the prem. I havehowever had enough opportunities to judge Kenny

Coleman could play the Allen role too......

 

[davek]

Or, give a full back who is quick enough to recover when an attack breaks down. You will not know what his defending is like at this level until he plays.

Anything you says pure conjecture as he has not played a league game for us. I don't know if he is good enough either, but,I will not judge him until he has had a game in the prem. I havehowever had enough opportunities to judge Kenny

I'm giving you the likely thinking of the manager.

Your argument is with him, not me.

 

[davek]

Coleman could play the Allen role too......

I'm pretty sure he could too.

 

[roy vernon]

I'm giving you the likely thinking of the manager.

Your argument is with him, not me.

No Dave, my argument is with the fact that, as usual, you are trying to put your opinion across as fact. You can't possibly say that Patterson can't play fullback in the prem until he has been given a chance, you can say that you don't think he can, but, that is opinion not fact. I would prefer to see him play at this lvl before making a judgment. What I do know is, he has every chance of being as good as Kenny and, who knows, might be a good bet to alternate with Coleman.

The fact is nobody, including you, knows until he plays. It's just opinion until then.

 

[davek]

No Dave, my argument is with the fact that, as usual, you are trying to put your opinion across as fact. You can't possibly say that Patterson can't play fullback in the prem until he has been given a chance, you can say that you don't think he can, but, that is opinion not fact. I would prefer to see him play at this lvl before making a judgment. What I do know is, he has every chance of being as good as Kenny and, who knows, might be a good bet to alternate with Coleman.

The fact is nobody, including you, knows until he plays. It's just opinion until then.

The only opinion that matters is Lampard's.

 

[roy vernon]

The only opinion that matters is Lampard's.

Correct and, at this moment in time, unless you have a crystal ball, neither you nor I know for sure what his opinion is. Remember how sure you were about knowing Moshiri's opinion on Benitez, a couple of days before he sacked him.

For an intelligent person, when the available facts change, your opinions will change, if necessary, to take the new data into account. Lampard strikes me as a bright young fella, perhaps he has taken into account that we have just conceded 9 goals in our last 2 aways and that he has just seen Patterson acquiting himself well at international level, regardless of the opposition. Armed with this new data, he may well decide it is time to give the lad a game.

Now I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying that we don't know, neither of us know. As you rightly say, the only opinion that matters is Lampard's. Let's not presume that we know what is currently going through his mind.

 

[davek]

Correct and, at this moment in time, unless you have a crystal ball, neither you nor I know for sure what his opinion is. Remember how sure you were about knowing Moshiri's opinion on Benitez, a couple of days before he sacked him.

For an intelligent person, when the available facts change, your opinions will change, if necessary, to take the new data into account. Lampard strikes me as a bright young fella, perhaps he has taken into account that we have just conceded 9 goals in our last 2 aways and that he has just seen Patterson acquiting himself well at international level, regardless of the opposition. Armed with this new data, he may well decide it is time to give the lad a game.

Now I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying that we don't know, neither of us know. As you rightly say, the only opinion that matters is Lampard's. Let's not presume that we know what is currently going through his mind.

Yes, I agree. We dont know his mind. But we cant say that he's armed with a lot of new relevant data that would change his oft-stated view.

Only injury to Coleman or Kenny will see him getting PL game time. I think that's a fair estimation based on previous Everton line ups under FL and his many comments about Patterson's status here.

 

[Moderatelywarmwater]

Please god no more 3/5 at the back. It has never worked at this football club.

Sort of agree, but right now, a 5 at the back and playing on the break is probably a better policy than getting smashed by 4?

 

[roy vernon]

Yes, I agree. We dont know his mind. But we cant say that he's armed with a lot of new relevant data that would change his oft-stated view.

Only injury to Coleman or Kenny will see him getting PL game time. I think that's a fair estimation based on previous Everton line ups under FL and his many comments about Patterson's status here.

Oh I think there is quite a bit of new data Dave, not least the fact that Coleman and Kenny have been part of a defence which has conceded 9 goals in our last 2 aways. He's tried a back 3, a back 4 and even,at times a back 5 and still we concede at an alarming rate. Perhaps he is reaching the conclusion that a change of personel is now required