New Everton Stadium Discussion

[Jacko93]

I think the point people are making is if we got to 62k with safe standing the other clubs will get the same % uplift which still leaves us miles behind in terms of matchday revenue, as we still are at the moment, unless we are set for the highest ticket prices in the north...

The point is that they won't get that uplift in many of the cases. The majority of stadiums have maximum capacity at the seated arrangement. For example, had the Gwladys street been designed now, the maximum capacity woudl be lower than what it is due to facility provisions and concourse space. The onlybreason it is as it is, is that it is an improvement on what it was.
Spurs for example, squeezed everything they could out of the space that they had in order to create the space required for NFL teams. They have an completely different set of team facilities on the other side, as NFL teams need much bigger changing room than football. They also need bigger media facilities, so all that had to be squeezed in. That was done as a balance. I put a post up a good while back about the design considerations when balancing out concourse and seating.

 

[Jacko93]

The point is that they won't get that uplift in many of the cases. The majority of stadiums have maximum capacity at the seated arrangement. For example, had the Gwladys street been designed now, the maximum capacity woudl be lower than what it is due to facility provisions and concourse space. The onlybreason it is as it is, is that it is an improvement on what it was.
Spurs for example, squeezed everything they could out of the space that they had in order to create the space required for NFL teams. They have an completely different set of team facilities on the other side, as NFL teams need much bigger changing room than football. They also need bigger media facilities, so all that had to be squeezed in. That was done as a balance. I put a post up a good while back about the design considerations when balancing out concourse and seating.

Here.

Post in thread 'New Everton Stadium Discussion' https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/new-everton-stadium-discussion.66451/post-9044161

 

[AsiaAsia82]

For the capacity argument there is as much chance as the sky football bubble bursting as us getting success, so I think it’s a reasonable to be more moderate when it comes to getting the capacity and filling the ground every fortnight.

 

[Legend78]

It's the wrong argument mate.

There are several reasons for wanting over 60000. Other "big clubs" have or are building to 60,000 plus. Dan Meis calls it size envy, but I think we ought to match our peers. But maybe Newcastle are our level now?

I would argue and have always argued (Covid apart) that if we had about 52-55,000 at Goodison now, then we'd sell it out. That's with the OLD Lady and the obstructed views to boot, and the lack of success and often tedious football.

Dare I say 52-53,000 is only another 13,14,000 seats. Not a huge addition when there is a demand for at least half of those seats now.

Moving to a new stadium, no posts, and a waterfront setting, there will be a swell of support I'm sure. The new stadium effect also, is not a figment of the imagination.

Sure. "Average" attendances have never been so high down the years to justify an average crowd of 55,000 at BMD. I also know the 80's and the 90's had some rediculously low attendances, many a game I was at when there was less than 20,000. The mid-eighties the best period that I was introduced to going the match, could have many games with empty sections. But also a different era for football and society.

The era now is of big stadiums and big crowds at the top end. I'd like us to be part of that. I'd like us to be at the top end with top stadia and top players. Not a mid-table club with supporters happy for us to be mid table with a middle of the road stadium. We should be all out to build the biggest we can and make a statement. Everton "are a big club". A club that wants to return to the top. Has ambitions to be the best. That's the trouble they don't live up to NSNO.

I also don't buy the final seats are the most expensive. You build a higher capacity you can cater for the big in-demand games. It would be cheaper to have the stadium built to a higher capacity than having to add more later on.

Unfortunately success will only fill grounds.. you look at the two most successful Clubs in the League United and Liverpool.. United have not won the League for coming up to ten years.. I don’t think they sell out every game anymore.. Liverpool have won the league and champions league within last three seasons.. before that no leagues in thirty years and one champions league in thirty six years.. both clubs rely on outside support because none have local matchgoing fans to fall back on.. if Man City and Chelsea continue on current path for next ten years United and Liverpool will be playing in front of about 30k if they are lucky because the foreign flakey fans who fill there grounds now will no longer be there and instead will be supporting City and Chelsea.. Liverpool have just started building the new Anfield Road Stand taking the capacity to over 60k I think this will be a bad move within the next eight to ten years as it will be half full at most..

 

[tommytowne]

The figure came from the club itself when asked by by their own rag, the Red Echo.
It was most certainly heavily quoted on here when the raffling of tickets for the 2000 seats on offer at the time.

I think it was a jibe at us. I'm sure there was a reference somewhere when they said something on the lines of.....Shocker! In an amazing reversal of fortune RS fans stand more of a chance getting a seat at a home game than Everton fans. Going on to explain there were fewer RS than Toffees eligible to go into the raffle for seats due to a substantially lower number of their customers having a Liverpool postcode.

 

[CrustySack]

Even in Liverpool, the RS currently have a monopoly on the 'fairweather fans' only because of their current popularity. That swells the perception that they outnumber us. Comparing an Evertonian to a fairweather red is like comparing chalk and cheese. Most blues would bleed for their club, me included, whereas most of their fans would not.

 

[Carloblues]

Unfortunately success will only fill grounds.. you look at the two most successful Clubs in the League United and Liverpool.. United have not won the League for coming up to ten years.. I don’t think they sell out every game anymore.. Liverpool have won the league and champions league within last three seasons.. before that no leagues in thirty years and one champions league in thirty six years.. both clubs rely on outside support because none have local matchgoing fans to fall back on.. if Man City and Chelsea continue on current path for next ten years United and Liverpool will be playing in front of about 30k if they are lucky because the foreign flakey fans who fill there grounds now will no longer be there and instead will be supporting City and Chelsea.. Liverpool have just started building the new Anfield Road Stand taking the capacity to over 60k I think this will be a bad move within the next eight to ten years as it will be half full at most..

Don't jalf chat some bubbles you

 

[windymiller]

I have cousins in N.Lancs who 'support ' the RS and dress their brats in red .They have never been to Liverpool let alone Anfield and they were quite taken aback when they found out that Everton is an actual place within the city. The country is full of these faux fans.

You need to tell your cousins that they, and their many fingered offspring should continue to support big stand redsox fc and that they should leave us normal folk alone.

 

[windymiller]

And that’s where it counts. What’s in the ground not who watches on a telly screen..

I sometimes give my nephew a lift to Anfield as he is one of the very very few locals who have one... when I drive to the ground about 2.30pm I drive past loads and loads of dads taking there sons and daughters to the local pubs along there way with the kids wearing red shirts and scarfs.. once you arrive at the ground you are hard pushed to hear a single local accent.. the amount of coaches parked up and not away fan coaches but home support is something to see.. every car park is full and they use Goodison Car Parks too and walk across the park...

Like I say in the City I would say blues fans out number match going reds fans about three to one...

I've had an idea. Why don't you go to a reservoir towpath, take as big a breath as you can, and then try to inhale your own member. It'll be tricky, and you may perish In the meantime but I reckon that, whatever the outcome, we will all win.

Kind regards,

Windy.

P.S. Love you.

 

[windymiller]

My dad's got a bigger willy than your dad.

How much bigger?

 

[windymiller]

Unfortunately success will only fill grounds.. you look at the two most successful Clubs in the League United and Liverpool.. United have not won the League for coming up to ten years.. I don’t think they sell out every game anymore.. Liverpool have won the league and champions league within last three seasons.. before that no leagues in thirty years and one champions league in thirty six years.. both clubs rely on outside support because none have local matchgoing fans to fall back on.. if Man City and Chelsea continue on current path for next ten years United and Liverpool will be playing in front of about 30k if they are lucky because the foreign flakey fans who fill there grounds now will no longer be there and instead will be supporting City and Chelsea.. Liverpool have just started building the new Anfield Road Stand taking the capacity to over 60k I think this will be a bad move within the next eight to ten years as it will be half full at most..

Both clubs not only sell out, they have gigantic waiting lists, as do Everton. You should go down to the reservoir and practice some self-reflection, as previously advised or I fear you may not get the release you clearly need.

 

[Legend78]

Even in Liverpool, the RS currently have a monopoly on the 'fairweather fans' only because of their current popularity. That swells the perception that they outnumber us. Comparing an Evertonian to a fairweather red is like comparing chalk and cheese. Most blues would bleed for their club, me included, whereas most of their fans would not.

This is quite correct.. a fan from out of town or foreign fan which make up three quarters of Liverpool’s home support will not have the same love or affection for the club because they chose to support it rather than inherit it like a local fan does.. The foundation of support has to be based on solid footballing values and when you pick a club to support based on glory and success then the love will never be the same.. that’s why when United and Liverpool stop winning major trophies in the next 8 to 10 years there attendences will plummet as they have nothing to fall back on.. those fairweather Gloryhunting fans will no way stick around and will jump ship to Chelsea and City...

 

[Legend78]

Both clubs not only sell out, they have gigantic waiting lists, as do Everton. You should go down to the reservoir and practice some self-reflection, as previously advised or I fear you may not get the release you clearly need.

Complete rubbish my friend..

 

[Jokerdan]

Corporate boxes are dying off all over the world due to company and taxation rules

Reading back through this thread and noticed the above from @Brisan123. Business governance nowadays make it less appealing for 'guests' to accept invitations from external companies - in either a professional or private format - as they are becoming more and more obligated to disclose interests for fear that it may be deemed a form of bribery and then governance regulators will be all over their asses.
So yeah, I'm with Bri on this one - the days of the prawn butty brigade may soon be a thing of the past....hopefully.

 

[Tom Hughes]

This is quite correct.. a fan from out of town or foreign fan which make up three quarters of Liverpool’s home support will not have the same love or affection for the club because they chose to support it rather than inherit it like a local fan does.. The foundation of support has to be based on solid footballing values and when you pick a club to support based on glory and success then the love will never be the same.. that’s why when United and Liverpool stop winning major trophies in the next 8 to 10 years there attendences will plummet as they have nothing to fall back on.. those fairweather Gloryhunting fans will no way stick around and will jump ship to Chelsea and City...

Unfortunately, I think we're kidding ourselves if we think United's or LFC's crowds will drop off dramatically. Their futures are relatively assured because their fanbases are massive. We haven't out supported either of them in over 50yrs in terms of average attendance.... and what's happened since has only grown that disparity further. Yes, we have a very loyal local fanbase and fair few out of towners due to our historic successes and the scouse diaspora, but those clubs are on a completely different level in terms of support and have been for decades. LFC charge to be on their waiting list which they stopped accepting new applicants for years ago and have a vast fee-paying membership scheme just to be considered for tickets. They only have a token quantity of concession priced tickets. I don't think they would have a problem filling 70k+ regularly.... we have to charge buttons by comparison to fill 39k.

It is true that more local blues attend than local reds, but that is merely indicative of their success, limited capacity and far higher demand. It may (hopefully will) backfire on them that they're ticketing policies and lack of ambition in terms of capacity for so many years has stopped thousands of local reds attending, meaning a whole generation has never got into the habit of going the match regularly. However, I don't think they'll have any problems filling the latest expansion or any others they may have planned for the future.

Even if they had a barren spell and demand dropped off slightly, there are massive reserves of fans waiting to get tickets and furthermore, even if disaster struck they could probably afford to reduce some prices, because their expansions are self-financing and pay for themselves in no time. That's before you even consider their commercial and other incomes.