New Everton Stadium

[Toffeelover]

I’m told the council interest margin will be 2.5% putting annual repayments at £20m including capital repayment (which is what the Mayor implied, the debt will be cleared after 25 years). This MIGHT (not a slam dunk) be covered by increased revenues but it is a risk. Breaking it down:

Assuming similar pricing and high occupancy c.55k matchday revenues would only increase by £5-6m (£14m annually at the moment). If they successfully sell the rumoured 4K premium seats as part of this (about 2500 more than Goodison) this number might get to nearer £10m but that is a big IF. The rest has to come from bigger commercial deals, more tv use, non matchday use, better catering/other deals etc. It can be done but we won’t have loads of spare cash and we still need a lot more cash to build it.

Eddy’s basic point above holds that EFC need to Finance the rest primarily through partner deals (naming rights etc.) and new investment (Moshiri or new shareholders) not more debt. Another say £150m of private finance would add a minimum £12m pa repayments (including capital repayments) and there is no realistic way that additional cost is also getting funded from direct revenue increases attributable to the stadium including enhanced commercial sponsorships. We cannot just assume a shiny new stadium in a great location makes us a CL club!

Given all the above why do it? 1. Goodison cannot survive forever 2. Image/prominence and brand-building that can better attract agents, players, sponsors, investors...that MIGHT ca Apuleius us not regular European football etc. which would transform the finances over a decade 3. The benefits to the City/catalyst for a more sustainable future 4. Thinking about the next 100 years not just 25 (but a lot can change in that timescale) 5. Many successful entrepreneurs would probably say sometimes you just have to think big, take a leap and challenge/trust yourself to succeed (think small/be small...of course sometimes think big, big mistake...).

IF the club can successfully deliver a 55-60k stadium at BMD it would be more likely to be an Emirates-style financial constraint in the early years than to promote instant riches but it would also shift the narrative about us from ‘the other club in Liverpool’ to ‘resurgent big club, big ambition’. It IS a big risk but without taking it nothing will change.

Food for thought. No ‘right’ answers. For me a risk we need to take and a chance to build something special but I understand why it scares/worries others. I also understand why this will be considered controversial and by no means a slam dunk to get council and public support. If LCC deliver on this it should put to bed for all times Blues whining the council does not work for us...though it also sets a precedent you can guarantee the Reds will exploit the second the ink is dry and spades in the ground for us.

Good post but also the delivery of a new stadium at BMD will catalyse the development of the area which will also benefit the city in a great way not just extra revenues but employment, housing, cleaning up an awful rundown area of the city.

 

[EFC78]

Let me see, 80 years???? well the loan is paid off in 25, no doubt the club will have insurance, no doubt as waters rise steadily ( not all at once) flood damage works will be on the go to protect Liverpool not just the stadium, will any of us be here in 8o year to worry about it. So what the hell is the point of the post lost me for sure.

PS the NK remark is just plain juvenile and stupid.

Read my other posts in the last page or 2 and decide whether I was being serious .

 

[davek]

All a matter of opinion.

The enormous levels of interest( based on nothing other than guesswork) is going to outweigh the opportunity that a 60k new stadium in a prime location where billions are going to be invested in the next decade or so..... I don't think so.

I think his opinion on finances being "challenging" (to use Elstones' cautionary term) and that maybe it's time to get real on size of stadium (at least initially - leaving room to expand in decades to come) and how iconic we need it to be is valid.

If we want this to happen those sacrifices may have to be faced and the budget then becomes easier to secure (and less potentially calamitous if things go wrong).

That said, we might be able to better use that cash to build better and bigger elsewhere in the city...or to upgrade GP. Either way we need to start coming to terms with the fact a £500M-£600M stadium is beyond our capability to fund and move on to another scenario.

 

[Toffeelover]

Many points put forward regarding the project of the new stadium both good and bad. Can understand questions on the finance but the point raised very negative and largely made by folk who want out of BMD.

I have raised in my posts many times what are the alternatives, I squashed the GP refurb idea and no one has come up with a land mark ground site in Liverpool with out the new stadium being tucked away out of site. responding again to DaveK pushing his GP idea and elsewhere in the city. There again he has not a clue where, to promote his suggestion, in other words has not a clue.

Really we have to sit back and see what develops over the next six months to have a clearer idea of the forward plan. Until then all this posting is a waste.

 

[Toffeelover]

Read my other posts in the last page or 2 and decide whether I was being serious .

I did read the one on the previous page but that was after I had posted, did give your post a like,

 

[GwladysBlue]

I think his opinion on finances being "challenging" (to use Elstones' cautionary term) and that maybe it's time to get real on size of stadium (at least initially - leaving room to expand in decades to come) and how iconic we need it to be is valid.

If we want this to happen those sacrifices may have to be faced and the budget then becomes easier to secure (and less potentially calamitous if things go wrong).

That said, we might be able to better use that cash to build better and bigger elsewhere in the city...or to upgrade GP. Either way we need to start coming to terms with the fact a £500M-£600M stadium is beyond our capability to fund and move on to another scenario.

I’m sceptical on the stadium move myself, but our owner is saying we WILL get a new stadium in regards to Bramley-Moore. You’re using Elstones’ words to suit an agenda you have.

The owner, the council and Peel all seem very confident in achieving this by 2022.
You don’t know as much as any of the involved parties, so you’ll have to stop spinning your opinions as facts.

 

[The binman chronicles]

That said, we might be able to better use that cash to build better and bigger elsewhere in the city...or to upgrade GP. Either way we need to start coming to terms with the fact a £500M-£600M stadium is beyond our capability to fund and move on to another scenario.

Wherever we build a 60k stadium in the city it will cost around the same. What you gain in land costs, (which if it is between 20-30 million for BMD is reasonable) you lose in transportation of the materials etc. The draining/filling of the dock creates one problem but it allows the club to have a large underground car park that will generate income afterwards. Swings and roundabouts. We would definitely lose out on sponsorship and other non matchday income at another location. This will make it more likely we could get into financial difficulty not less.

Redevelopment at Goodison costs would be massive for little benefit so it's a non starter.

 

[davek]

Many points put forward regarding the project of the new stadium both good and bad. Can understand questions on the finance but the point raised very negative and largely made by folk who want out of BMD.

I have raised in my posts many times what are the alternatives, I squashed the GP refurb idea and no one has come up with a land mark ground site in Liverpool with out the new stadium being tucked away out of site. responding again to DaveK pushing his GP idea and elsewhere in the city. There again he has not a clue where, to promote his suggestion, in other words has not a clue.

Really we have to sit back and see what develops over the next six months to have a clearer idea of the forward plan. Until then all this posting is a waste.

I think I've got more of a grip in the realities of this situation than you - both from a political and economic challenge point of view.

It's no use taking a Pollyanna view of things all working out well when the last few days has underlined that investment is a huge problem - one that falling back even more on the local state wont solve, because the local state wont wear that.

My interest is only to recognise the realities of where we are and ask what we can do about it. I value input from posters like indieman who has offered analysis of the difficulties, but also offered possible positive scenarios which can keep a stadium build on track at BMD. I offer myself ideas about looking again at the GP refurbishment route we may have to look at going down again.

In short, we have reached a point where we have to recognise that the original BMD financial plan looks to be in a lot of trouble. Ignoring that and thinking we can carry it through to fruition as it has been proposed is not helpful.

 

[davek]

Wherever we build a 60k stadium in the city it will cost around the same. What you gain in land costs, (which if it is between 20-30 million for BMD is reasonable) you lose in transportation of the materials etc. The draining/filling of the dock creates one problem but it allows the club to have a large underground car park that will generate income afterwards. Swings and roundabouts. We would definitely lose out on sponsorship and other non matchday income at another location. This will make it more likely we could get into financial difficulty not less.

Redevelopment at Goodison costs would be massive for little benefit so it's a non starter.

Fair points. But maybe that just underlines that we have to compromise if we are finally to see a new stadium.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Fair points. But maybe that just underlines that we have to compromise if we are finally to see a new stadium.

No doubt. It has become clear that we will need to cover the funding gap by raising capital within the club or by saving income over the next few years. If we can't do that then the plans will have to be scaled back to fit the budget and we would need a fixed price build.

 

[blueblue]

I think his opinion on finances being "challenging" (to use Elstones' cautionary term) and that maybe it's time to get real on size of stadium (at least initially - leaving room to expand in decades to come) and how iconic we need it to be is valid.

If we want this to happen those sacrifices may have to be faced and the budget then becomes easier to secure (and less potentially calamitous if things go wrong).

That said, we might be able to better use that cash to build better and bigger elsewhere in the city...or to upgrade GP. Either way we need to start coming to terms with the fact a £500M-£600M stadium is beyond our capability to fund and move on to another scenario.

I think those are fair points Dave.

But, I think there will be difficulties and challenges in any project we undertake. Costs continue to rise and it is hard to believe that a better location may be available.

Yes, undoubtedly there are risks, but it is said that fortune favours the brave... and I think that is where we are now.

 

[EFC78]

His points, as I see them, are inarguable: either the owner of this club lobs eventually what is likely to be £200M into the pot to cover the non-council secured loan or we forget about this, because the enormous levels of interest repayment due to length of period of borrowing and the risk involved in the nature of the project will completely outweigh the benefit accruing to the club...and that, after all, is what the objective is.

Think this is where your argument falls down. You are seeing it from a very narrow minded viewpoint of how this Stadium may suit Everton FC and not the bigger picture. Which is why you are supporting this dreamy eyed view of redeveloping Goodison, when it is a complete non-starter. Everton building a stadium at BMD has far more added benefits for the City of Liverpool and there is far more interest in that project being a success from various other parties, not just Everton FC. Peel want it to happen, LCC want it to happen and the City of Liverpool would benefit massively from it happening. Moshiri also needs it to be a success.

 

[davek]

No doubt. It has become clear that we will need to cover the funding gap by raising capital within the club or by saving income over the next few years. If we can't do that then the plans will have to be scaled back to fit the budget and we would need a fixed price build.

Agreed...though scaling back on squad spending could see us in a woeful condition if that's what saving income is all about.

 

[davek]

I think those are fair points Dave.

But, I think there will be difficulties and challenges in any project we undertake. Costs continue to rise and it is hard to believe that a better location may be available.

Yes, undoubtedly there are risks, but it is said that fortune favours the brave... and I think that is where we are now.

Overall, I think it was a great idea to build at BMD (still is if heads are knocked together and a workable solution can be found). The club had to see if it was possible, no harm in that.

But if head winds are too strong we need them to be courageous and cut and run on this scheme. Dont hang around playing silly buggers to save face. Get it closed down and get back to the drawing board.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Agreed...though scaling back on squad spending could see us in a woeful condition if that's what saving income is all about.

We have stockpiled a load of young talent, these could be drip sold over the years to come to help fill other areas if they are not specifically what we need at the time.

Over a 4 year build perhaps we would only need to be really careful in years 2 and 4 allowing the inbetween years free-ish to ensure we don't get left behind. The initial 280 million would be enough to kick start development so the extra money would not be needed until fitting out stage or whenever.