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New Everton Stadium

Sorry pal, but this is utter madness.

Maybe, maybe not. The Man U fans when they had a 45k Old Trafford would've thought it was madness that they had plans for 75k or whatever it is. When we were building the Park End some fans thought it was madness to allow for more than 40k.

60000 is fine for now, and we've been average for years yet that's about right. We're like a third level club at the moment in European football terms. Regular Champions League would be the 2nd level. Top level is a par with Bayern Barcelona etc. If this stadium is the springboard to the next level then if we can consistently stay there, we will need more than 60000. How much more? Well that's what I'm asking.
 
Maybe, maybe not. The Man U fans when they had a 45k Old Trafford would've thought it was madness that they had plans for 75k or whatever it is. When we were building the Park End some fans thought it was madness to allow for more than 40k.

60000 is fine for now, and we've been average for years yet that's about right. We're like a third level club at the moment in European football terms. Regular Champions League would be the 2nd level. Top level is a par with Bayern Barcelona etc. If this stadium is the springboard to the next level then if we can consistently stay there, we will need more than 60000. How much more? Well that's what I'm asking.

Most new builds would be fairly easy to expand if you have the land to do so. Just means you start with a fairly cheap exterior as there is no point it being top of the range if you are going to be building behind it. We would be able to expand both side stands if it runs alongside the river but the goal ends would be pretty much blocked from doing so. All that is pretty moot though as I can't ever see us expanding if we build a 60k to start with, things would have to drastically change such as a having a period of domination like utd had.
 
Maybe, maybe not. The Man U fans when they had a 45k Old Trafford would've thought it was madness that they had plans for 75k or whatever it is. When we were building the Park End some fans thought it was madness to allow for more than 40k.

60000 is fine for now, and we've been average for years yet that's about right. We're like a third level club at the moment in European football terms. Regular Champions League would be the 2nd level. Top level is a par with Bayern Barcelona etc. If this stadium is the springboard to the next level then if we can consistently stay there, we will need more than 60000. How much more? Well that's what I'm asking.

I don't see an issue with considering options for expansion. But comparisons with Man United are a bit flawed in terms of the size of their club and fanbase potential. Since 1973, Man United have had the highest attendance in the country, in all but 3 seasons when the RS were ahead of them. Them considering 75K then was different to us considering such a big capacity these days.

But appreciate you are just enquiring in the event we turn successful again. Guess Meis and the club will have to consider all these things, but they need to make a statement with the initial capacity and after us selling out for the past year, and seeing how West Ham have done it, very high 50's/60K should be the target in my opinion, and I think it will be.
 
It is important not to downplay the effect a new stadium has on the desire for supporters to start attending. We have been selling out 39K for well over a year now with all the negatives Goodison has with views and lack of facilities etc.

All the other clubs that have moved have had significant increases that neutral supporters would probably mock them for had they claimed they would achieve those attendances when they were still at the old ground.

I noticed that Brighton are averaging 30K this season. That is more than Wolves are getting who are walking the Championship (and have a far bigger fanbase), and is only slightly below 2 clubs with sizeable fanbases in Leeds and Villa who are getting 32/31K. Would anyone have believed that possible of Brighton looking at their previous attendances? In 2011, they were averaging 7K which is less than the likes of Lincoln and Luton in the current 4th tier. They moved ground and are now among the top 15 average attendances in English Football. West Ham's previous record attendance was 42K and they had never averaged over 35K in their entire history. They're now in the top 4 for attendances in English Football because they have the capacity to get those crowds with the right prices and season ticket deals.

We aren't a West Ham though, and we're certainly not a Brighton. We are a club who has been capable of getting 78,000 when interest was highest, and our ground allowed it, and one of only 8 clubs in the Country to average over 50K in a single season. The other 7 clubs have all had the benefit of a ground move or expansion that we haven't had as well.
Fair points, but I'd say our situation is a little bit different to those clubs.

Brighton is a reasonably sized city, with a population of around 250,000 and a huge catchment area for fans due to there being no other teams in the local area. They have previously had attendances in the 20,000s in the 70s and 80s but the sort of figures you're talking about came when they were in the 3rd tier, in an out of town stadium with no parking facilities, temporary seats, and a running track around the pitch. A lot more than the capacity of the stadium has changed for them, so the increase in gates isn't necessarily indicative of a long term increase in demand. Wigan is a good example to use to see what I mean by that. While in the 3rd tier they moved from an awful, awful stadium to a brand new one with a larger capacity but their average attendances remained under 12,000 for another 7 years before suddenly rocketing to over 20,000 for their first season in the PL. They remained around 18/20,000 for the duration of their time in the PL, but have been back below 12,000 for the past couple of years now that they're out of it. It wasn't the stadium which had increased their attendances, it was the fact they were playing Everton. Liverpool and United instead of Tranmere, Shrewsbury and Macclesfield. Similar stories can be found at Hull and Bolton, who've both 'lost' 7-10,000 fans since being relegated.

West Ham is also different simply because they're in London. There are 9 million people living in London, and a constant stream of millions upon millions of visitors, many of whom are all too happy to take in a game of premier league football while they're over. Fulham used to benefit greatly from those fans, and West Ham now get a lot of them, particularly as a trip to their stadium can be teamed with a visit to the Olympic Park and the country's biggest shopping complex.. I'm not sure that the population of Liverpool and the visitor numbers we would get could support the same easy growth that West Ham saw.

We need to increase our capacity substantially, there's no doubt about that, but I have to admit i'm slightly sceptical that we could improve our attendances by 50% overnight. Maybe if we were winning every week and had great players to watch, but would 60,000 be turning up to watch a Sam Allardyce team lumping aimless balls for Oumar Niasse to chase into the corner? Personally I would have no problem with a 50-55k capacity.
 
Most new builds would be fairly easy to expand if you have the land to do so. Just means you start with a fairly cheap exterior as there is no point it being top of the range if you are going to be building behind it. We would be able to expand both side stands if it runs alongside the river but the goal ends would be pretty much blocked from doing so. All that is pretty moot though as I can't ever see us expanding if we build a 60k to start with, things would have to drastically change such as a having a period of domination like utd had.

Thanks. It doesn't sound then that there'd be a great now deal of cost difference you'd pay now in allowing the sides to be able to expand, perhaps even cheaper as you'd spend less on the exterior? Other things like having the angles right on the sides so that an upper tier would fit, the roof joins to the Ends a consideration too, but by the sounds of it then all the cost would be met when/if the expansion was ever done.

That's my understanding too about the Ends being a tight fit, probably why we're only having one good end, rather than two average ones, but as with all the aspects of the stadium we're guessing on the missing pieces of the jigsaw and that's a dangerous thing to do.

We would need a period of domination, or a sustained period at a higher level to increase the fanbase to need to expand, but then isn't that the whole point of moving, to try and do exactly that?
 

He is beginning to irritate me now as well tbh.

I like his enthusiasm but clearly the timeframe for this whole development is nowhere near capable of keeping up with his desire to comnunicate on it.

He seems to be a bit of a free spirit which comes from being your own boss to a degree but knowing when to say nothing is also very handy.

I would expect that any spurts of Twitter activity from Meis have to sanctioned by EFC. Long period of silence, some chatter, some silence.... He now seems to be a bit more forward in hinting at stuff, suggesting that more progress on BMD is imminent.
 

danmeis‏ @Meisarch
3m3 minutes ago
On a serious note, capacity is a key part of the study in front of us. Building must be “right sized” for the club, the site, the future...bigger isn’t always better.


it's off again

People are too hung up on the capacity
Agree. If it is +60,000 nice
If not...nice
I doubt it will be +60
Think it will be around 52,000-55,000

I always like to note that Juventus has 42,000

Like Dan said it will be right size for us. It's not as simple as peeps think...theres numerous things that determine the capacity
 
Thanks. It doesn't sound then that there'd be a great now deal of cost difference you'd pay now in allowing the sides to be able to expand, perhaps even cheaper as you'd spend less on the exterior? Other things like having the angles right on the sides so that an upper tier would fit, the roof joins to the Ends a consideration too, but by the sounds of it then all the cost would be met when/if the expansion was ever done.

That's my understanding too about the Ends being a tight fit, probably why we're only having one good end, rather than two average ones, but as with all the aspects of the stadium we're guessing on the missing pieces of the jigsaw and that's a dangerous thing to do.

We would need a period of domination, or a sustained period at a higher level to increase the fanbase to need to expand, but then isn't that the whole point of moving, to try and do exactly that?

It is always more expensive to add later on than build it to that size to start with but from the stand point the roof will be designed to unbolt at the point you would want the extension to start and itself would be designed to then join to an extension piece to make it longer from the get go all makes it easier if you wanted to go down that route.

Building to 50,000 would be a waste, just build it to a decent size (61,878) to start with and at worst build a smaller 3rd tier at the top holding 5k or so that can be covered in advertising or say EVERTON like upper bullens/gwladys that can be opened or closed as per demand for that match.
 

I always like to note that Juventus has 42,000

Juve are world famous, they are the best team in the league and all the players want to join them, they make more than enough extra through sponsorship not to care and besides the Italian league doesn't pull in the punters like the premiership. So a full new 40k is probably better than a rundown 60k one that only 30k have turned up to.

Hardly any of that applies to us. If in 20 years the TV deals pop wouldn't you like to half keep up with Spurs/West Ham etc.?
 
Juve are world famous, they are the best team in the league and all the players want to join them, they make more than enough extra through sponsorship not to care and besides the Italian league doesn't pull in the punters like the premiership. So a full new 40k is probably better than a rundown 60k one that only 30k have turned up to.

Hardly any of that applies to us. If in 20 years the TV deals pop wouldn't you like to half keep up with Spurs/West Ham etc.?
If the TV bubble pops, wouldn't being stuck paying off a 60k seater stadium with only 45k people sitting in it be a bit more of a pressing concern than whether we got as many fans through the turnstiles as West Ham?
 
Just my opinion, but anything significantly more than 60k sounds absolutely mental. I can't begin to imagine how many stars would need to align for Everton to become a European powerhouse capable of attracting 60K+.
 

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