New Everton Stadium

[Jacko93]

I went around the dock about 8 years ago. It is a complete dump and most of it had been left to rot. So where was Historic England then, or in previous years when it was left to ruin? Their interest only came when we started looking at it.

That's not entirely true.

The issue here is muddied by the fact that the land already had outline planning approval, that satisfied the concerns of Historic England. The main one being the structure of the Docks retaining walls and ability to act as a dock. Peel had planning approved back in 2012 for the area to become residential, one that maintained all dock structures. The argument is to develop ito the 2012 plan, not with a stadium that fills in the dock. Their argument isn't, don't build a stadium, let it rot.

This is why I said a while back it is likely to be called in. The SoS will look at the benefits of a stadium over the benefits of a residential development in the area and make the decision accordingly. It is less likely for it to be called in now than it was pre-pandemic, but still likely that it will. I've gone from 90% sure, to about 70-75% sure.

 

[Jacko93]

I don’t get it, this World heritage malarky and historic England, 2 minutes down the road on Princess dock is like Dubai, sky scrapers all over the gaff, right next to the Liver bird, full of chit if you ask me.
First picture is taken from in amongst all new buildings, plush apartments. 2nd picture is Princess Dock, part of it left to rot, are we really leaving the rest of the docks like the 2nd picture, get fcked with your historical bullchit.

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That second picture is of the old cattle pier. It's not being left to rot and planning was approved in 2018 for a new cruise liner terminal.

 

[Seathestars]

That second picture is of the old cattle pier. It's not being left to rot and planning was approved in 2018 for a new cruise liner terminal.

Yes I know it’s the new cruise terminal, my point was a Lot of the rest of the docks are just like that, are we just going to leave it. I should have made myself more clear. My lad works here so I kick bout down there quite often

 

[OneTrueLegend]

Roll on the 23rd Feb. this announcement that the planning team have recommended it for approval on 23rd of February, kind of feels like a baby step in the right direction. If we get the approval, hopefully it doesn't go to Robert Jenrick for review, because it will be another delay.

 

[davek]

My concern was more around the council bottling the decision to go against Historic England, but sounds like LCC are ready to approve.

The fact that if the SOS calls it in, it will take another year, could actually play the decision in our favour, as Central Gov will recognise the benefit of the immediate economic boost it will deliver.

think the key bit in your quote is “unless the decision-maker concludes that the proposal is shown to be necessary to secure substantial public benefits”.

The current climate makes those substantial public benefits a much easier sell.

In the end this will get the nod. But IMO there'll be need to be even more patient than waiting for a 2024 stadium completion. Add another year on.

I'd be interested to read what @Jacko93 makes of it all.

EDIT. Sorry, he already has above.

 

[Magus]

That's not entirely true.

The issue here is muddied by the fact that the land already had outline planning approval, that satisfied the concerns of Historic England. The main one being the structure of the Docks retaining walls and ability to act as a dock. Peel had planning approved back in 2012 for the area to become residential, one that maintained all dock structures. The argument is to develop ito the 2012 plan, not with a stadium that fills in the dock. Their argument isn't, don't build a stadium, let it rot.

This is why I said a while back it is likely to be called in. The SoS will look at the benefits of a stadium over the benefits of a residential development in the area and make the decision accordingly. It is less likely for it to be called in now than it was pre-pandemic, but still likely that it will. I've gone from 90% sure, to about 70-75% sure.

The counter to that argument is the fact that the earlier consent did not materialise, seemingly due to a lack of interested investors, particularly at that end of the Peel site. The stadium would effectively provide a buffer to the wastewater works and encourage redevelopment of the remaining land in the enterprise zone. I am hopeful that Jenrick's libertarian, anti-regulation credentials lead him to a similar conclusion, but I couldn't put a figure on it.

 

[Brisan123]

If it's anything like our planning meeting you'll find out who your councillors support at the start when they have to declare any potential conflicts of interest. One was apparently a big Norwich fan. We're the closest PL team geographically to them so maybe he felt he needed to mention it.

Anyway, excellent news and fingers crossed it's smooth sailing from now on. Looking forward to watching this beast go up over the next few years.

Only problem is who in their right mind is going to admit to following Liverpool with their current form
Never seen as many quiet and sheepish Kopites in work in 38 years here

 

[RobSpurs]

Only problem is who in their right mind is going to admit to following Liverpool with their current form
Never seen as many quiet and sheepish Kopites in work in 38 years here

Not sure I'm in much of a place to comment on that.

 

[Jacko93]

The counter to that argument is the fact that the earlier consent did not materialise, seemingly due to a lack of interested investors, particularly at that end of the Peel site. The stadium would effectively provide a buffer to the wastewater works and encourage redevelopment of the remaining land in the enterprise zone. I am hopeful that Jenrick's libertarian, anti-regulation credentials lead him to a similar conclusion, but I couldn't put a figure on it.

The Peel (Liverpool) waters project was never considered as anything other than a 20 year plan. Investors had already started to make enquiries on available plots within the released zones, with some of them actually being built there already. A big bonus for Peel is that they can use the stadium to kickstart the whole project from the far end, as you say, only losing their least lucrative zones in residential. We cant forget that the Stadium is a late addition to the plan. There is lots going on with the other parts, things which have been long in discussion, but have been given a shot in the arm with the stadium coming on line.

Don't get me wrong, I am 99.99% it will go ahead, as I always have been, but we must be aware that if it gets called in, its not because they don't want us to build there, or they want to leave it derelict, its because they have a different opinions on which development is best for the place.

For what its worth, a huge bonus for Everton is the speed at which it can be done and the longer term job creation. They haven't been shouting about 2 year turnarounds to build for our sake.....

 

[The binman chronicles]

you'd think we wanted to take down Stonehenge and use it as building materials.

That was in appendix 467066.c2-E.

 

[Magus]

The Peel (Liverpool) waters project was never considered as anything other than a 20 year plan. Investors had already started to make enquiries on available plots within the released zones, with some of them actually being built there already. A big bonus for Peel is that they can use the stadium to kickstart the whole project from the far end, as you say, only losing their least lucrative zones in residential. We cant forget that the Stadium is a late addition to the plan. There is lots going on with the other parts, things which have been long in discussion, but have been given a shot in the arm with the stadium coming on line.

Don't get me wrong, I am 99.99% it will go ahead, as I always have been, but we must be aware that if it gets called in, its not because they don't want us to build there, or they want to leave it derelict, its because they have a different opinions on which development is best for the place.

For what its worth, a huge bonus for Everton is the speed at which it can be done and the longer term job creation. They haven't been shouting about 2 year turnarounds to build for our sake.....

Of course I am viewing it historically, and from my own experience of Peel Holdings I think that if they had received other firm/viable offers BMD would have been released and started before now. Residential was always going to be a hard sell at the northern end of the site, and the apparent stranglehold UNESCO have on tall building projects in the WHS makes it harder if all of the water is to be retained. We can only hope common sense prevails.

Having bigged up Jenrick's laissez-faire approach, I am now slightly worried that his determination to protect cultural icons of the Slave Trade era might come into play.

 

[Philw]

Lol @ all the people on the 'club make announcement after big loss' tip. Moshiri must have some pull if he can arrange LCC meetings whenever he likes to cover a bad result!!

 

[Jim Hopper]

Lol @ all the people on the 'club make announcement after big loss' tip. Moshiri must have some pull if he can arrange LCC meetings whenever he likes to cover a bad result!!

It’s not like he has millions to lose on all of this is it? Must just make it all up for the laughs!

 

[TommyDavo]

What is the difference between referring this to the SOS and it being called in? One a rubber stamp and the other a further full blown inquiry?

 

[Achilles Heel]

From what I have read online and by fellow Blues on this forum much more knowledgeable on construction and planning than me, there looks to be two levels of 'call in':

- The 3-week option based on the Secretary of State having to follow a formal process of viewing and approving because of the scale of the project. Turn around approx 21 days and really just rubber-stamping the approval by the local authority (LCC planning inspector and planning committee) so not really a 'call in' at all. More a matter of process.
- The months and months (maybe a year) full 'call in' option whereby it is fully reviewed by another independent inspector appointed by Jenrick for review. This will be slow and agonising for us all if it comes to pass.

Fingers crossed it's the former - I would be a lot less confident if the planning inspector had expressed concerns. The fact that Historic England and the Victorian Society have acknowledged the benefit to the public outweighs damage to heritage also makes me optimistic, as does the fact that Jenrick appears to want to keep local development decisions local.