New Everton Stadium

[Dymak]

Sorry mate but this is painful - sometimes it's just better to hold your hands up and say "I've no idea what I'm talking about". Trust me, I have to do it every week in the match threads.

The regulations you're talking about expire BY LAW on the 30th June 2021. If you're looking for some light lunchtime reading, feel free to have a read: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/364/made

If not, I've highlighted the key part for you.

View attachment 122544

I agree, this is painful.

Read sub-section 2 of your reference.

Personally I'd say repeatedly calling your own point "salient" (despite all the evidence and multiple explanations why it isn't) is pretty RAWKish...

But since you're so obsessed (for reasons passing understanding) with the CURRENT regulations (3.5yrs ahead of when they would be relevant)... those regulations are that 10,000 fans will be allowed into grounds for the last 2 games of THIS season, and that all social restrictions come to an end in June...

So... feel free to explain WHY investors won't invest in something that's 3 1/2 years away...? Rather than just repeatedly stating that they won't.

Read sub-section 2 of the reference above.

 

[The binman chronicles]

No, it wouldn't.

The logic behind my point is that a ban on attending stadia might just have an affect on businesses that are involved with stadia. This logic would not apply to businesses that have no business with stadia.

The bigger stadium at reduced capacity with wider concourses, premium seating would still draw in more income than what Goodison could. It's financially prudent to proceed even in covid times. Basically the naming rights will pay the loan back and at the end of the day that's all the banks care about. It's a safe bet.

However Moshiri could have baulked at paying the 100 + million but hasn't been put off seeing he could have used covid or Brexit at any time for an excuse to do so. I don't think he would get to the point of being granted PP and then decide not to go through with it. In short I can't see a problem here.

 

[roydo]

I agree, this is painful.

Read sub-section 2 of your reference.



Read sub-section 2 of the reference above.

A short lesson from someone who knows the commercial property market.

Lenders/owners of them are concerned with 2 main things. Annual rents and/or annual interest and capital repayments. They then assess the risk of either or all of those not happening.

The obvious one is the company renting or repaying going bust. With a football ground that is more of an issue than say a shopping centre, cos its unlikely a ground would get a new team in it, and it cant really be used for much else. Knock it down and do sommet else with it is more likely.

Then there is a load of other stuff to assess, (Sky going bust, Everton getting relegated, all sorts).

Current arrangements re crowds will not be anywhere near an issue though.

 

[bicycleheader]

Threads been derailed by an overly salient point

 

[Dymak]

A short lesson from someone who knows the commercial property market.

Lenders/owners of them are concerned with 2 main things. Annual rents and/or annual interest and capital repayments. They then assess the risk of either or all of those not happening.

The obvious one is the company renting or repaying going bust. With a football ground that is more of an issue than say a shopping centre, cos its unlikely a ground would get a new team in it, and it cant really be used for much else. Knock it down and do sommet else with it is more likely.

Then there is a load of other stuff to assess, (Sky going bust, Everton getting relegated, all sorts).

Current arrangements re crowds will not be anywhere near an issue though.

You don’t think a continuation of an outright ban on attending stadia would be anywhere near an issue for people involved in the development of stadia?

Why aren’t people investing in stadia located on the Orkney Islands then? Why is a 500 million pound investment considered suitable for a club like Everton, but I’m sure you’d agree that it wouldn’t be considered suitable for Marine FC?

I get that people’s confidence has increased because of the successful roll out of the vaccine. I get that people expect the current ban on stadia attendance to end. My point has always been that it will have to end for the development to be considered viable, and that if it continued, then a 500 million pound investment in a stadium that nobody is allowed to attend would not be an attractive investment.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

No, it wouldn't.

The logic behind my point is that a ban on attending stadia might just have an affect on businesses that are involved with stadia. This logic would not apply to businesses that have no business with stadia.

The only reason a stadium ban would have ANY bearing on such an investment decision is that there is uncertainty as to future revenues.

With startup loans, ALL THERE IS is uncertainty as to future revenues...

 

[Mrk]

I agree, this is painful.

Read sub-section 2 of your reference.

Mate, it expires in 2021. It's law.

To be extremely blunt and matter-of-fact: There is no law in place that will ban attending a stadium in 2024.

Hope that's salient enough.

 

[number4.]

You don’t think a continuation of an outright ban on attending stadia would be anywhere near an issue for people involved in the development of stadia?

Why aren’t people investing in stadia located on the Orkney Islands then? Why is a 500 million pound investment considered suitable for a club like Everton, but I’m sure you’d agree that it wouldn’t be considered suitable for Marine FC?

I get that people’s confidence has increased because of the successful roll out of the vaccine. I get that people expect the current ban on stadia attendance to end. My point has always been that it will have to end for the development to be considered viable, and that if it continued, then a 500 million pound investment in a stadium that nobody is allowed to attend would not be an attractive investment.

This is incorrect, what is needed is clarity around whether attendance will be viable by the time BMD is built. With all information available this is correct.

To apply your argument to the macro, you never know if a stadium would be viable at time of completion, you have to go with the best information available. Football might be banned by our Alien overlords in 2024, but that is unlikely.

Covid has rocked the Stadium & all that goes with them industries, but all information suggest they have a future, especially when you now see Aztrazenca close to delivering a nasal spray vaccine

 

[Dymak]

Mate, it expires in 2021. It's law.

To be extremely blunt and matter-of-fact: There is no law in place that will ban attending a stadium in 2024.

Hope that's salient enough.

I think I need to get back to work lol

There isn't currently a ban on stadia attendance in 2024. But there wasn't a ban on stadia attendance in 2018, but then this thing happend, which caused legislation to be introduced that banned stadia attendance in 2020/21. I think it was a world-wide pandemic or something, you may have heard of it?

And mate, the legislation that you have cited literally contains a provision to completely change the legislation. The reason this clause is contained within the legislation is literally because the law makers are weary of how events may develop. Not just in general because nobody can see into the future, but because of the nature of this pandemic.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

If we are still in lockdown come 2024 then we'll have much bigger problems to be worrying about than funding for BMD!

 

[Amw79]

If we are still in lockdown come 2024 then we'll have much bigger problems to be worrying about than funding for BMD!

Exactly. In that apocalypse scenario, BMD could be used as the North West Thunderdome, Mad Max style, where everyone battles to the death for bog roll and pasta.

 

[Mrk]

I think I need to get back to work lol

Hope to god your job isn't in corporate finance - nothing would ever get built.

There isn't currently a ban on stadia attendance in 2024. But there wasn't a ban on stadia attendance in 2018, but then this thing happend, which caused legislation to be introduced that banned stadia attendance in 2020/21. I think it was a world-wide pandemic or something, you may have heard of it?

And mate, the legislation that you have cited literally contains a provision to completely change the legislation. The reason this clause is contained within the legislation is literally because the law makers are weary of how events may develop. Not just in general because nobody can see into the future, but because of the nature of this pandemic.

But here's where you're starting to contradict yourself. You've repeated numerous times that you can't predict the future, but now you're saying that the legislation might get extended? Well, yeah - there might be another world war too...

 

[Dr Baxter]

While I agree with all the imagery, I simply don't think a ferry terminal will be worth the expenditure and/or offer the reliability of service required.

It's all well and good on a Saturday match at 3pm in fair to good weather, but what about night matches or when the weather is rough in the winter?

From what I can tell, the last service is nearly 7pm, so unless they allow a special match timetable and some funding the club it doesn't feel a viable option.

If, a big if, Liverpool Waters kicks off like Peel want it to be may it be a viable route, but I can't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

I'd be more inclined to hope Merseytravel and the club invest in the bus and rail routes, be that extra services or potentially even a new station before Sandhills.

Not sure we can expect a ferry terminal soon but you never know, a Mersey booze cruise up and down the river for an hour or 2 meeting up with a couple of double decker buses at The Pier Head would get my vote.

 

[Dymak]

This is incorrect, what is needed is clarity around whether attendance will be viable by the time BMD is built. With all information available this is correct.

To apply your argument to the macro, you never know if a stadium would be viable at time of completion, you have to go with the best information available. Football might be banned by our Alien overlords in 2024, but that is unlikely.

Covid has rocked the Stadium & all that goes with them industries, but all information suggest they have a future, especially when you now see Aztrazenca close to delivering a nasal spray vaccine

Fair enough.

How would that clarity manifest itself though?

I imagine it would involve the removal of the current ban on stadia attendance, and that said clarity would not be obtained if the current ban remained in place?

 

[Brennan]

So now we’ve gone from “we can’t afford the stadium” to “we won’t be able to go in the stadium”.

When does it end ?