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New Everton Stadium

TheBigIguana said:
I'm not sure why people like to act like because I don't live within walking distance of the ground that it is irrelevant to me. But supporting the club it still matters and I'd still like to see us get it right.
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Probably because you have zero frame of reference, have no expertise in the area (self confessed) and are making inane comparisons to stadia that are nothing like BMD in this country, and then holding up stadia built under completely different laws and restrictions for (mostly) a different sport as some sort of effort to score points against a ground designthat has something like a 95% approval rating among the people who will ACTUALLY be moving away from Goodison
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
Probably because you have zero frame of reference, have no expertise in the area (self confessed) and are making inane comparisons to stadia that are nothing like BMD in this country, and then holding up stadia built under completely different laws and restrictions for (mostly) a different sport as some sort of effort to score points against a ground designthat has something like a 95% approval rating among the people who will ACTUALLY be moving away from Goodison
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I meant I have no expertise in plumbing mate.

I just don't want us to see us be Arsenal. And you're going to go "BMD is nothing like the Emirates!!!" and sure, keep telling yourself that, hopefully it ends up being true. But we won't know for a few years and it is not a guarantee to be.
 
TheBigIguana said:
I meant I have no expertise in plumbing mate.

I just don't want us to see us be Arsenal. And you're going to go "BMD is nothing like the Emirates!!!" and sure, keep telling yourself that, hopefully it ends up being true. But we won't know for a few years and it is not a guarantee to be.
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Oh so you DO have expertise in stadium design?

As for the second part - look at the comparison images - they're on GOT somewhere, I took them myself - that compares the angle and position of the stands to that of the Emirates. Closer to the pitch, and significantly steeper. To the limits of the law. And with potential to be converted to safe standing should that ever be allowed. Oh, and with a much lower % of lounge/high priced seats

So yeah, I'll keep telling myself that it's nothing like The Emirates. Because it's nothing like The Emirates.

Unless "like the Emirates" extends to "it's a stadium, with seats and walls, and a pitch in the middle"
 
BirkenheadBlue said:
Oh so you DO have expertise in stadium design?

As for the second part - look at the comparison images - they're on GOT somewhere, I took them myself - that compares the angle and position of the stands to that of the Emirates. Closer to the pitch, and significantly steeper. To the limits of the law. And with potential to be converted to safe standing should that ever be allowed. Oh, and with a much lower % of lounge/high priced seats

So yeah, I'll keep telling myself that it's nothing like The Emirates. Because it's nothing like The Emirates.

Unless "like the Emirates" extends to "it's a stadium, with seats and walls, and a pitch in the middle"
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Yeah man I hope for everyone's sake
 
TheBigIguana said:
Again, not suggesting building onto the existing place. I haven't done it a single time. Stop telling me we can't because I know and am not saying to.
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Fellow American here, but I’ve been to Goodison a bunch, so I’ll point out a couple things.

I know you’ve said you aren’t advocating for building onto the ground, but there’s simply nothing that can be done about the obstructed views without expanding the footprint of the stadium. The infrastructure to support the stands any other way would require more physical space. To the American mind that is used to our stadiums being off on their own and surrounded by thousands of parking spaces, it’s hard to fathom just how integrated these grounds are into the neighborhoods they reside in. On three sides of Goodison the distance between the ground and people’s homes is literally the width of a two-lane road, so a seemingly minuscule expansion of 10-20 feet on even one side would require leveling a city block.

Goodison is great, and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed every time I’ve gone. There will be plenty of things I’ll miss about it once the new stadium is done, but plenty that I won’t as well. Like the fact that it takes the entirety of halftime to fight your way through the mass of humanity in the Gwaldys Street to get to bathroom, piss, and get back for the second half kickoff. Or the fact that unless you live in the immediate area surrounding it, it’s kind of a pain in the ass to get to. Having actual transport links from the City Center (which I think is part of the long term plan at BMD) will be a revelation.

Long story short…having never seen it any other way than from afar, I can understand how it would be easy to romanticize the nostalgia of the place. The actual reality is somewhat different though. I promise.
 

TN Toffee said:
Fellow American here, but I’ve been to Goodison a bunch, so I’ll point out a couple things.

I know you’ve said you aren’t advocating for building onto the ground, but there’s simply nothing that can be done about the obstructed views without expanding the footprint of the stadium. The infrastructure to support the stands any other way would require more physical space. To the American mind that is used to our stadiums being off on their own and surrounded by thousands of parking spaces, it’s hard to fathom just how integrated these grounds are into the neighborhoods they reside in. On three sides of Goodison the distance between the ground and people’s homes is literally the width of a two-lane road, so a seemingly minuscule expansion of 10-20 feet on even one side would require leveling a city block.

Goodison is great, and I’ve thoroughly enjoyed every time I’ve gone. There will be plenty of things I’ll miss about it once the new stadium is done, but plenty that I won’t as well. Like the fact that it takes the entirety of halftime to fight your way through the mass of humanity in the Gwaldys Street to get to bathroom, piss, and get back for the second half kickoff. Or the fact that unless you live in the immediate area surrounding it, it’s kind of a pain in the ass to get to. Having actual transport links from the City Center (which I think is part of the long term plan at BMD) will be a revelation.

Long story short…having never seen it any other way than from afar, I can understand how it would be easy to romanticize the nostalgia of the place. The actual reality is somewhat different though. I promise.
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Back in the day, with cheap, if a bit slowish, public transport it was easy to get to. But 'slow' didn't matter- it was a slower world. You just got on the bus and looked out of the window as you went past the world

It's still a slow world now, with much poorer public transport.
It's people who want it faster and moan when it isn't.

In 1890 horse drawn London the average speed to cross London was about 10mph.
In 2021 with 140mph cars the average speed is still 10mph.

All that notwithstanding, we need a new ground and there is no 'political will' to upgrade on site.
So it's BMD or nothing...and nothing is not an option.
 
Toffeeslam said:
new seats won’t mean you can suddenly see past a post supporting the roof.

Goodson has about 5-6k has restricted or severely restricted views. New seats and a concourse would mean remodelling stands that’s still lots of work and cost for little gain
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Just to play devil's advocate we could cantilever the roofs and block off the back of BR, GS and the MS to remove the restricted views but it would lead to a severe drop off in capacity. Like you say not worth the extra cost for very little benefit.

TheBigIguana said:
Do you guys actually think that the bathrooms are going to smell good in a new place? And this is the big reason we need a new ground, so a piss is more comfortable?
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It's down to poor ventilation, everything is cramped with low cellings. Yes moving would make going for a slash smell better as we have been to loads of stadiums that already do.

You have to appreciate the concourse space in these stands are less than the width of someone's front room and yet there are 6/4k jammed in. Bullens Road will hit one hundred years old if we stay there until 2026 - it was not designed for modern football or anything else for that matter and to make it do so you would lose what makes Goodison special in the first place. If we knocked the whole ground down and rebuilt it just wouldn't be the same so why not move to different surroundings that have more space and have a fresh start? It won't be Goodison but it won't be like the Emirates or the Olympic stadium and it will give us chance to try to grow again after being held back for so many years.
 

I’d imagine if we had somewhere to play for 18 months and could ‘start again’ from a flat site, GP could be redeveloped to a new, slightly adjusted, modern stadia. But I think it would cost as much as BMD, and would not be a waterfront location.
I do note that the new ground is allegedly taking key elements from GP.
Hopefully not the restricted views, poor amenities and players facilities that avoid the away team changing in a portacabin when Covid strikes again.
 
AsiaAsia82 said:
I’d imagine if we had somewhere to play for 18 months and could ‘start again’ from a flat site, GP could be redeveloped to a new, slightly adjusted, modern stadia. But I think it would cost as much as BMD, and would not be a waterfront location.
I do note that the new ground is allegedly taking key elements from GP.
Hopefully not the restricted views, poor amenities and players facilities that avoid the away team changing in a portacabin when Covid strikes again.
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It's not feasible though.

We could, but where are we getting the extra bums on seats? If you take away the history, and the memories (which we all have in abundance), Goodison is still a logistical nightmare. It's a 20 minute walk from the nearest station, and whilst there are busses, the routes are limited, so it's not accessible for everyone from the City (I imagine those from over the water, it must be even more difficult).

If we did what Liverpool did, and buy up the houses and let the area run down (something I never think we would do - I know we own some houses), and maybe bought the school, you could extend the Bullens, The Gwladys St would need every house knocking down, and the Main Stand is already lopsided, we'd struggle to meet the proposed capacity.

I love Goodison and it'll be a very, very teary day when we leave, but logistically, there's no way we can build a suitable stadium on it's site, within the same budget, as good as what BMD would be.
 
barneygumble said:
It's not feasible though.

We could, but where are we getting the extra bums on seats? If you take away the history, and the memories (which we all have in abundance), Goodison is still a logistical nightmare. It's a 20 minute walk from the nearest station, and whilst there are busses, the routes are limited, so it's not accessible for everyone from the City (I imagine those from over the water, it must be even more difficult).

If we did what Liverpool did, and buy up the houses and let the area run down (something I never think we would do - I know we own some houses), and maybe bought the school, you could extend the Bullens, The Gwladys St would need every house knocking down, and the Main Stand is already lopsided, we'd struggle to meet the proposed capacity.

I love Goodison and it'll be a very, very teary day when we leave, but logistically, there's no way we can build a suitable stadium on it's site, within the same budget, as good as what BMD would be.
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Think we could.
Some architect draw plans up how to rebuild GP.
Looked feasible.
 
barneygumble said:
It's not feasible though.

We could, but where are we getting the extra bums on seats? If you take away the history, and the memories (which we all have in abundance), Goodison is still a logistical nightmare. It's a 20 minute walk from the nearest station, and whilst there are busses, the routes are limited, so it's not accessible for everyone from the City (I imagine those from over the water, it must be even more difficult).

If we did what Liverpool did, and buy up the houses and let the area run down (something I never think we would do - I know we own some houses), and maybe bought the school, you could extend the Bullens, The Gwladys St would need every house knocking down, and the Main Stand is already lopsided, we'd struggle to meet the proposed capacity.

I love Goodison and it'll be a very, very teary day when we leave, but logistically, there's no way we can build a suitable stadium on it's site, within the same budget, as good as what BMD would be.
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I agree, it’s not ideal and am fully up for the move to BMD. I was just saying it was an option but would not achieve what we need in reality
 

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