New Everton Stadium

catcherintherye said:
But again you are making a different point. % of turnover is different to total wage.

I'd be a bit wary of fans being fully back in August as well by the way and staying in all season.
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Huh!!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand what you mean... if you have a £250 million wage bill with a £500 million turnover then that is a very healthy 50% to wages to turnover.

If youre wage bill is in the 50% to 60% of a turnover then you are a efficient financially strong club wouldn't you say?

Clubs with those figures like that tend to post yearly profits as was seen by "sky 6" prior to Covid all had wages in the 50-60% projectile from swiss ramble reports from the 18-19 and 19-20 turnover results that i looked at earlier.

We had massive consistent losses because a big part of that was our escalating wage bill was 84%-89% from 18-20, our matchday and commercial revenues are so small to lower the ratio down and being one of the biggest spenders in the league the last 5 seasons.
 
catcherintherye said:
But again you are making a different point. % of turnover is different to total wage.

I'd be a bit wary of fans being fully back in August as well by the way and staying in all season.
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To be fair Catcher wages to turnover is far more relevant than total wages.

Wages are heavily incentivized at the top clubs. Players accept that because they know they are likely to hit the targets. At Everton we can't have incentivised wages because players know they are unlikely to trigger bonuses by winning things or qualifying for Europe.

So we end up with managers and players who end up with huge basic salaries and little financial reason to do well.
 
gwladysnight said:
To be fair Catcher wages to turnover is far more relevant than total wages.

Wages are heavily incentivized at the top clubs. Players accept that because they know they are likely to hit the targets. At Everton we can't have incentivised wages because players know they are unlikely to trigger bonuses by winning things or qualifying for Europe.

So we end up with managers and players who end up with huge basic salaries and little financial reason to do well.
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When joining Everton I doubt that, for instance, a bonus for winning the CL is included. I would guess this is true for fifteen or sixteen of Premiership clubs.

I would guess that European qualification would trigger a bonus, reaching or winning a cup final or semi final would trigger a bonus.

I would guess that players joining any club will be incentivised by agreeing sensible goals for that club. I would guess that a player joining Everton or most clubs will have the same targets as Man City.

In addition, in recent seasons we have signed a lot of young players such as Richarlison, DCL, Godfrey, Holgate,even Iwobi who were young and at the beginning of their career, some of these will have ambitions to win trophies( but maybe not at Everton) and play international football.
They will not reach those goals by just sitting on their pay packets.
Finally, most players want to do well personally, they want to play in a winning team. Getting beaten every week is no fun for them or sitting on the bench isn't either.
These are young men who have been the cream of the crop since they were young boys do you believe they suddenly lose all the ambition and drive that got them to this level in the first place ?
 
EverTheOptimist said:
Huh!!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand what you mean... if you have a £250 million wage bill with a £500 million turnover then that is a very healthy 50% to wages to turnover.

If youre wage bill is in the 50% to 60% of a turnover then you are a efficient financially strong club wouldn't you say?

Clubs with those figures like that tend to post yearly profits as was seen by "sky 6" prior to Covid all had wages in the 50-60% projectile from swiss ramble reports from the 18-19 and 19-20 turnover results that i looked at earlier.

We had massive consistent losses because a big part of that was our escalating wage bill was 84%-89% from 18-20, our matchday and commercial revenues are so small to lower the ratio down and being one of the biggest spenders in the league the last 5 seasons.
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I'm not trying to be horrible mate, but wages to turnover and gross wages are different things. That's all I am saying. As one measures depends on turnover.

Our wages to turnover is very high, but it doesn't mean our wage bill is high.
 

gwladysnight said:
To be fair Catcher wages to turnover is far more relevant than total wages.

Wages are heavily incentivized at the top clubs. Players accept that because they know they are likely to hit the targets. At Everton we can't have incentivised wages because players know they are unlikely to trigger bonuses by winning things or qualifying for Europe.

So we end up with managers and players who end up with huge basic salaries and little financial reason to do well.
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I appreciate that mate, but it's more just trying to say that wages to turnover is different to just wages. I'm just trying to make that point, but obviously not doing it very well as it's falling on deaf ears.

Wages to turnover is of course a more apt measure when considering the financial health of a company. Which is sort of circling it back to the original point I made back to yourself, that our issue is as much that our turnover is not high enough or our wages are too high, depending on your perspective.

To get a bit more nuanced, you are better having a larger wages to turnover on a small turnover than a large one, as at least you have space for growth but it's a slightly incidental point, as Everton don't fall into that category (indeed by the time the next set of accounts come out I doubt few teams will).

The incentivised point is a good one. It can leave you in a catch 22 but in general incentivised agreements make sense. At the risk of sounding very obvious, our issue is that once you take people on at football it's actually quite difficult to get rid of them. Lots of teams are finding that in the existing bear market, but in fairness we have were having these problems in the bull market! So the best solution is not to buy "duds" as once they are bought, you can't get rid of them.#

I have personally stated that I'd like to see more 2-3 year deals handed out with 1 year extensions for the club. I think there's a bit of a hangover here at the club from years where we couldn't protect assets so we still want to hand out long contracts. We are now in a better position where we can extend contracts IF the player is worth it. To me there has to be more thought as to how we use the wealth of Moshiri and/or Usmanov to maximise growth. I think protecting downside risk, with shorter contracts initially with the option of longer deals if they perform is one way to do it.

It means you might have to sell people on at the other end a bit more than you like, and may have to surrender some profit on them, but in general we need to trade more often as it's a source of liquidity for the club and as footballers depreciate on the balance sheet quite as easy way to show profits and improve the balance sheet.

The other downside is that we miss out on a lot of players, but I do think we have to change our thinking from player y,x or z is the key player for us to get. Outside of Lukaku, I can't think of many signings we have made who had we not got an alternative it could have worked out ok. For me Brands needs to have a list with 10 names on. You immediately whittle down the list to those who would come for a salary in our range and would sign a 2-3 year deal. You will get an indication of who really believes in himself and who is after a gravy train from that exercise. You may end up with your 6th choice, but if your DOF/scouting is good enough they will be able find enough suitable players. I'm going on, but you'll also depreciate value on the balance sheets quicker, which has it's own advantages too.

The problem I really have, in all honesty is I don't think that level of thinking is happening. The view will be throw money at Benitez, and he will make it work. I mean maybe? But even if we throw money at it, we will still have the 6/7th best squad as per wage bills.If you're banking on a squad with that spend being able to finish in the top 4, it's a risk, and probably not the most calculated risk either.
 
catcherintherye said:
I'm not trying to be horrible mate, but wages to turnover and gross wages are different things. That's all I am saying. As one measures depends on turnover.

Our wages to turnover is very high, but it doesn't mean our wage bill is high.
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Well it's still pretty high in for a club that earns only 25 million more than what we pay out in wages.

You can spin all you want mate, but a club with a £190 million turnover should not be having wages of £165 million, those are very high wages for our clubs standing right now, no trophies no European football, our wages are around or higher than Roma, Dortmund, Milan, Leicester, Ajax, Sevilla, Inter, Napoli.

If we pulled in the same money as the RS, City and United our wages at the same wages to turnover ratio of 89% would be around £550 million, let that sink in.
 
EverTheOptimist said:
Well it's still pretty high in for a club that earns only 25 million more than what we pay out in wages.

You can spin all you want mate, but a club with a £190 million turnover should not be having wages of £165 million, those are very high wages for our clubs standing right now, no trophies no European football, our wages are around or higher than Roma, Dortmund, Milan, Leicester, Ajax, Sevilla, Inter, Napoli.

If we pulled in the same money as the RS, City and United our wages at the same wages to turnover ratio of 89% would be around £550 million, let that sink in.
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I'm not trying to spin anything mate, but you are commenting on something I haven't said.

1) Our wages to turnover is not pretty high, it's very high.
2) Our wages compared to other sides in the top 7/8 teams is very low. Our wage bill is a lot lower than City and Liverpool, around half
3) Our wages to turnover is high at least partially because commercial growth is poor. Our commercial growth will likely only improve if we start getting into Europe.

All of those things are true simultaneously.

Our wage bill does not become as big as City, United or Liverpool on account of our wages to turnover ratio. They are separate things.

As for the comparison to European teams, it sort of stands, and we have underachieved to a degree, but unfortunately there are 6 teams who outspend us dramatically in wages. In most other leagues, the clubs above (many of them who pay higher wages than us) have 1 or 2 teams to compete with. They all also have anywhere from 6-10 teams in their league who have the salary akin to a championship team.

None of this is to spin anything, or make an excuse, but to give some acknowledge to the concrete challenges we face. We have to find a way to outperform 2 or 3 sides above us in the wage bill table, while not being overtaken by those below us.
 
Dan Meis been taken over, but apparently still working on the stadium. :oops:



The seeds for Perkins Eastman and Meis Architects to combine forces were planted in Abu Dhabi seven years ago, as famed sports venue designer Dan Meis and Perkins Eastman’s Shawn Basler and Scott Schiamberg dug into a multicourse meal of spiced meat and hummus.

The two sides bid on a stadium project together in Abu Dhabi and began to pursue more work together in the years since, eventually leading to the question of whether they should join forces permanently. They did so formally last week in a merger that will see Meis remain an independent brand under the Perkins Eastman umbrella. Financial terms were not shared.

“We really enjoyed working with each other,” said Basler, co-CEO of Perkins Eastman. “The other litmus test is when you travel with someone. Dan came to Abu Dhabi, and we had a lot of fun. Great interview, great meetings, some fabulous lunches and dinners, so that’s when you can really tell when you get along with somebody.”

Meis’ relationships with Perkins Eastman’s leadership assuaged his concerns about pairing with one of the world’s 10 largest architecture firms. As such, no intermediaries were involved in the deal’s negotiations.

“It really started as a personal thing,” said Meis. “That made all the difference in the world. I would have really been afraid of this if not for the personal connections I had with everyone over there.”

Meis founded the sports practice at NBBJ and designed prominent venues including Staples Center, Lincoln Financial Field and T-Mobile Park, before leaving to start his independent studio in 2007. Meis’ small size was a double-edged sword. Venue owners liked the focus that the 25-person team gave to their projects, but many worried whether that attention could be maintained if another project surfaced at the same time. Limiting the number of simultaneous projects hurt Meis during the pandemic when his few projects stalled, putting the studio’s bottom line at risk.

The merger with Perkins Eastman, which is active in college sports and specializes in mixed-use developments and claimed $275 million in 2019 revenue, enables Meis to still give venue owners the personal attention they want, but the resources to work on multiple projects and not get swamped.
Basler said his company believes in maintaining a brand’s identity, which is why Meis’ name will stay intact. That’s not always been the case in similar sports architecture firm mergers in the past.

“They’re not just trying to gobble up my skills and portfolio and make me part of the larger brand,” said Meis, who is currently working on soccer stadium projects for Everton Football Club and AS Roma. “They really recognize that we are delivering something unique in sports, and they’re building that rather than swallowing it.”

In at least one way, the merger speaks to where the sports industry is headed.
“I don’t see a single project these days that doesn’t have some aspect of entertainment district, urban master planning, wider impact on the community,” said Meis. “That’s what these projects are now, and Perkins Eastman has that skill set and history and portfolio better than anyone. And so, the opportunity for me to bring those things together with what I do was another really important part of this.”
 
Going back to the name of the stadium, so USM have the naming rights.

Okay for I hope it is called USM Goodison maintiaing a link to our roots and thr Old Lady.
 

I wonder if by the time the new stadium opens and we have four trophies between now and the opening, Benitez is still in charge and is known to blues locally as Sir Rafael that he will get a statue........
 

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