Next Everton Manager

[maccavennie]

...I reckon his first task is to make us hard to beat and i think we’ve conceded at least 2 in each of his games so far. I agree about Vlasic, though. Not sure what has happened there but he’s the one who can carry the ball and go past defenders in central positions.

Yep and if we had looked solid in those games we could all agree we can see a plan, but we look like a sieve at the back. Over the 2 legs against Lyon it could and should have been a cricket score for them and they barely had to get out of 1st gear to beat us twice, only having a wobble for 15 minutes on the 2nd half ( obviously 1st keg Koeman was in charge but same applied 2nd leg )

What was more concerning was that he said he was happy that we executed his plan which was to hold on for dear life for an hour and then try and have a go. If we had gone to Chelsea and had a go from the off we would be in the next round now. It' just his mindset is initially to defend and then hopefully grab something.

These players aren't capable of doing that with what we have available

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ostersund--europa-league-premier-league-clubs

An outside bet maybe?

 

[MikeH72]

...I reckon his first task is to make us hard to beat and i think we’ve conceded at least 2 in each of his games so far. I agree about Vlasic, though. Not sure what has happened there but he’s the one who can carry the ball and go past defenders in central positions (other than Barkley, of course).

There is nothing he can do about having Phil Jagielka and Ashley Williams to pick from in defence to be fair, and one left back who's finished. No manager in the world could get this group of players defending solidly.

 

[kev]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ostersund--europa-league-premier-league-clubs

An outside bet maybe?

Just read the article. . . . . . . . . Jose Baxter says yes.

 

[Eggs]

There is nothing he can do about having Phil Jagielka and Ashley Williams to pick from in defence to be fair, and one left back who's finished. No manager in the world could get this group of players defending solidly.

..I don’t think it’s as simple as blaming the back four, it’s as much about how the team is set up ahead of them.

 

[bluestevon]

There is nothing he can do about having Phil Jagielka and Ashley Williams to pick from in defence to be fair, and one left back who's finished. No manager in the world could get this group of players defending solidly.

Oh beg to differ there mate, some would definitely be able too, Benitez 100% would over a period get this defence stopping leaking goals

The BIG question is rather - would any manager have been able to do so within 24 hours of taking over - Chelsea game, and with a 3 hour session only beforehand, and would any manager have been able to subsequently sorted the defence out given the ridiculously low number of training sessions they have been able to have with the players - given we had to go Lyon - come back from there and had games either side a few days apart.

Answer for that one is probably - not many would have been able to tighten them up - and none would have been able to stop their heads going completely soon as a goals conceded.

Only way we will be able to tell about Unsworth in truth - is over a period of time, and more so a period of time with a few decent back to back results like the Watford one - so he isn't dealing anymore with the morale and confidence being rock bottom, will he get that time and will he manage to sort the confidence out - who knows, but anyone really judging him based on the past 2 weeks is being well harsh IMO

an example - people are shouting out that Big Fat Sam would sort our defence out, is this the same BFS who about two weeks after taking over Sunderland came to Goodison with his Sunderland side and shipped 6 goals - and could and should have easily been double figures that day?

 

[MikeH72]

..I don’t think it’s as simple as blaming the back four, it’s as much about how the team is set up ahead of them.

Think it is mainly about the state of the back 4 to be honest, Gana being horribly out of form is of course a factor, but you can't have several players in their mid-30s playing every single week in the Premier League and get away with it.

 

[MikeH72]

Oh beg to differ there mate, some would definitely be able too, Benitez 100% would over a period get this defence stopping leaking goals

The BIG question is rather - would any manager have been able to do so within 24 hours of taking over - Chelsea game, and with a 3 hour session only beforehand, and would any manager have been able to subsequently sorted the defence out given the ridiculously low number of training sessions they have been able to have with the players - given we had to go Lyon - come back from there and had games either side a few days apart.

Answer for that one is probably - not many would have been able to tighten them up - and none would have been able to stop their heads going completely soon as a goals conceded.

Only way we will be able to tell about Unsworth in truth - is over a period of time, and more so a period of time with a few decent back to back results like the Watford one - so he isn't dealing anymore with the morale and confidence being rock bottom, will he get that time and will he manage to sort the confidence out - who knows, but anyone really judging him based on the past 2 weeks is being well harsh IMO

an example - people are shouting out that Big Fat Sam would sort our defence out, is this the same BFS who about two weeks after taking over Sunderland came to Goodison with his Sunderland side and shipped 6 goals - and could and should have easily been double figures that day?

"Over a period" is the key there. Over that period he would buy about 3 new defenders, Unsworth has had a period of 3 games and has only the shambles he's been given to work with. No manager in the world could bring Jagielka's legs back to life, or turn Baines' body clock back 4 years. Our defence is crippled and it's the fault of the previous manager and the recruitment team.

 

[bluestevon]

"Over a period" is the key there. Over that period he would buy about 3 new defenders, Unsworth has had a period of 3 games and has only the shambles he's been given to work with. No manager in the world could bring Jagielka's legs back to life, or turn Baines' body clock back 4 years. Our defence is crippled and it's the fault of the previous manager and the recruitment team.

Not arguing with you about that, and the heads going - i actually think is down to both Willaims and Jagielka being main culprits of it, soon as we concede they give up effectively and then the rest of the team dominoes in on that.

If Mori was fit - then him and Keane should 100% be the starting partnership for all games really, still not brilliant like but would see those other two away from the pitch so they can't spread the malaise any further in a game, short of that - it's hard to see WHAT Unsworth can do exactly before January - play Holgate with Keane? take a absolute wild gamble and throw the young lad Feeney in with Keane and hope Keane being the senior man can step up into a leader role and help his own loss of confidence out by giving him more responsibility?

There is a core of players at the team atm - senior pro's - who basically need cutting out the team due to frankly being so steeped in a loosing mentality and lack of responsibility (except for nice media sound-bites about effort and fighting etc) that all they do is drag the younger players down instead of bolstering them up.

Just a few cases from recent games - Kenny scoring the OG the other day, not one of the senior players comes over - not a single one of them, just dropped heads and lost in their own self pity.

Martina goes down with what at the time looked a absolutely horrid injury, 5-6 Lyon players around him trying to help, or check hes ok, not a single one of ours within 30 yards of the lad, including our captain, absolutely disgusting that and shows a huge lack of team spirit - or at best that their isa collection of groups in the squad and if your not in it then 'f' you basically.

 

[Marius57]

...not sure how you folk think, but not withstanding the euphoria of Sunday’s comeback, there was nothing to suggest to me that we could get anything from the Palace game. The way we set up out wide I can’t see how we can handle Zaha and I fear the feel good feeling will be well and truly extinguished.

I wish I had a feel good feeling. Was nice to win, but that feeling left fairly quickly when you actually think how lucky we were to win all being down to cleverley. It was plainly obvious, even when we were in the ascendency in the game, how open we were to attacks.

Not even thought relegation was a possibility at all, but we are still In dire straights. I completely agree with the points you make, I just don’t think there is a feel good feeling around, unless people are blind to what actually happened.

 

[ijjysmith]

..I don’t think it’s as simple as blaming the back four, it’s as much about how the team is set up ahead of them.

Think it is mainly about the state of the back 4 to be honest, Gana being horribly out of form is of course a factor, but you can't have several players in their mid-30s playing every single week in the Premier League and get away with it.

I agree with both of you really.

Our defence isn't very good. It's old, slow and lacks any leadership.

But with no protection, no attacking threat from those ahead of them, they are under pretty much constant pressure from the moment the ball is kicked and certainly as soon as those ahead of them lose possession...which we do a lot.

A focal striker would help. Not be the solution, but would help just ease the pressure a bit back there.

 

[MikeH72]

Not arguing with you about that, and the heads going - i actually think is down to both Willaims and Jagielka being main culprits of it, soon as we concede they give up effectively and then the rest of the team dominoes in on that.

If Mori was fit - then him and Keane should 100% be the starting partnership for all games really, still not brilliant like but would see those other two away from the pitch so they can't spread the malaise any further in a game, short of that - it's hard to see WHAT Unsworth can do exactly before January - play Holgate with Keane? take a absolute wild gamble and throw the young lad Feeney in with Keane and hope Keane being the senior man can step up into a leader role and help his own loss of confidence out by giving him more responsibility?

There is a core of players at the team atm - senior pro's - who basically need cutting out the team due to frankly being so steeped in a loosing mentality and lack of responsibility (except for nice media sound-bites about effort and fighting etc) that all they do is drag the younger players down instead of bolstering them up.

Just a few cases from recent games - Kenny scoring the OG the other day, not one of the senior players comes over - not a single one of them, just dropped heads and lost in their own self pity.

Martina goes down with what at the time looked a absolutely horrid injury, 5-6 Lyon players around him trying to help, or check hes ok, not a single one of ours within 30 yards of the lad, including our captain, absolutely disgusting that and shows a huge lack of team spirit - or at best that their isa collection of groups in the squad and if your not in it then 'f' you basically.

All true. And our reward for these "senior pros" is to give them fat contracts until the age of 38 to see their career out and make sure we look after them. Utter charity case of a club we are.

 

[MickA]

Oh beg to differ there mate, some would definitely be able too, Benitez 100% would over a period get this defence stopping leaking goals

The BIG question is rather - would any manager have been able to do so within 24 hours of taking over - Chelsea game, and with a 3 hour session only beforehand, and would any manager have been able to subsequently sorted the defence out given the ridiculously low number of training sessions they have been able to have with the players - given we had to go Lyon - come back from there and had games either side a few days apart.

Answer for that one is probably - not many would have been able to tighten them up - and none would have been able to stop their heads going completely soon as a goals conceded.

Only way we will be able to tell about Unsworth in truth - is over a period of time, and more so a period of time with a few decent back to back results like the Watford one - so he isn't dealing anymore with the morale and confidence being rock bottom, will he get that time and will he manage to sort the confidence out - who knows, but anyone really judging him based on the past 2 weeks is being well harsh IMO

an example - people are shouting out that Big Fat Sam would sort our defence out, is this the same BFS who about two weeks after taking over Sunderland came to Goodison with his Sunderland side and shipped 6 goals - and could and should have easily been double figures that day?

Agree with all of that. The right coaching gets the CB and CM working closer together, stops gaps behind the FB etc etc but as you say that takes time and the point about the schedule bang on the money. Nobody wants to go out of competitions but right now it seems for the best to have 1 game a week.

One thing overlooked by many is Koeman knew that this season was 2 games a week for months and completely failed to manage the schedule. Remember Williams playing twice for Wales with Jagielka sat at home. Next game Williams is picked ahead of Jagielka is just one example and who knows what effort was or wasn't being put in during the times they were actually at FF.

As for Allardyce, that SAFC team was horrific at Goodison. I can only imagine the Palace performance when Moyes' magnificent Sunderland played them off the park and were 0-4 up at half time must have been every bit as bad.

 

[Khalekan]

..I recall Alan Ball saying this 20 years ago when he was managing Portsmouth. He said he looked in the players eyes and saw they weren’t bothered because they earned more than he did.

I think I read one time that Alex Ferguson had it written into his contract that he was paid one pound per week more than United’s highest paid player.

 

[bluestevon]

Agree with all of that. The right coaching gets the CB and CM working closer together, stops gaps behind the FB etc etc but as you say that takes time and the point about the schedule bang on the money. Nobody wants to go out of competitions but right now it seems for the best to have 1 game a week.

One thing overlooked by many is Koeman knew that this season was 2 games a week for months and completely failed to manage the schedule. Remember Williams playing twice for Wales with Jagielka sat at home. Next game Williams is picked ahead of Jagielka is just one example and who knows what effort was or wasn't being put in during the times they were actually at FF.

As for Allardyce, that SAFC team was horrific at Goodison. I can only imagine the Palace performance when Moyes' magnificent Sunderland played them off the park and were 0-4 up at half time must have been every bit as bad.

Agree mate, i aslo pointed out BFS record last 12 game sin charge of Newcastle - 9 points

Additionally - people reckon he did well at West Ham etc, the last 16 games in charge of West Ham from him - played 16 - won 2 (against Burnley and Sunderland) - 11 points.

So lots of people saying get him in he will sort us etc, - what happens if he replicates either of those type of form for us instead ...

Interestingly those where the two biggest clubs he managed as well in terms of expectations, which 100% he would have more pressure and expectation on him here