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Phil Jagielka

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I still think given the volume of games next season, jags will start about 30 games, if we play 3 at the back, I think we need his experience for another season at least
 
I think he'll be given a free transfer, he won't want to sit on the bench all season and that's the best he can hope for. Those who say he still has his part to play, where does Holtgate and Funes Mori fit into that equation? Both are better options than Jags, surely?
 
Viennablue said:
Jags has been great. Solid pro, decent performer, great at his peak. He may not have been the best on-field captain but I bet he was a role model to the younger lads and he never had any off the field problems.

BUT... he is now on the way down.

I understand people saying we should show more respect etc etc. In a way those people are right. Shouts of "bin him off" and "get rid asap" are not needed.

However, in recent years EFC have had a bad habit (in my opinion) of keeping players way too long. I'm thinking the likes of Weir Stubbs Neville Distin Hibbert Osman Howard etc. we always have to keep these players (who were all decent, not great, but decent in their day) one season too long.

To the point where they are still playing for us and everyone can see they are past it. They are too slow, making bad decisions, getting abuse from the fans, and every week the manager has to spend time in post match interviews deflecting, ducking the issue and this only makes things worse. The fans know they are finished and so does the manager and the player himself. But they won't admit they were wrong to offer the new bumper deal and the player has too much pride to admit he can no longer cut it. This in turn makes the fans question the manager's eye for a player and the player's professionalism. The deflected questions also make the fans feel they're being taken for mugs.

This often leads to a sour ending. The fans are simply glad the player is gone. Not bothered about the replacement, just glad the player is no longer available to be picked by the manager. The player will also remember the club less fondly which has a knock on effect when he is working in the media (giving little jibes where he can) or in management ("don't go to EFC the fans are a nightmare").

In short I feel now would be the perfect time for Jags to move on. He'd be remembered as a good guy who did well for us in times where we couldn't compete with the big boys because of financial restraints. In my opinion he should go back to shef united, his home town club and be a hero once more, in a league where he'd still boss it. Rather than a bit part squad player on the decline.

What also must be remembered (as stated a few posts ago) while he was a good player, he was part of a side that always seemed to lack the drive, snide and determination to win a game when it really mattered. I'm thinking cup games, derbies, prem games away to big sides when key points were at stake. In recent years this has been like a disease at Everton. To stop this mentality we need to get rid of anyone who thinks mediocrity is ok. I'm not saying this is all Jag's fault, it isn't, but as captain and a key player during these years he has to take his share of the responsibility.
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A eloquent argument, well made.

My counter to it would be that we aren't talking about extending his contract for another season like we seemed to do endlessly with Osman & Hibbert - he's already contracted to us until summer of 2018! If Jags wanted to go to another club then that is different, but if he feels like he wants to stay here and fight for place (or just warm the bench) then the club is contractually obliged to honour the contract and allow him to do that, and I would personally welcome it. From his own pov, could Sheff Utd afford to pay him the same wages as we do? If not, then put yourself in his shoes and ask why would you take a drop in pay a year early.
 

evilwebby said:
From his own pov, could Sheff Utd afford to pay him the same wages as we do? If not, then put yourself in his shoes and ask why would you take a drop in pay a year early.
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Or...why would you leave behind all the hard work you've put in over the last decade trying to keep a perennial underdog playing at the highest level they can, when that effort is finally seeing some concrete upside?

If he leaves, fair play to him. I wouldn't want to, I'd want to stay and fight for some much laboured after silverware. I don't think we're exactly pushing him out the door here but the club does have to start moving forward as much as it can and I'm pretty sure he understands that.
 
St. Domingo said:
I think he'll be given a free transfer, he won't want to sit on the bench all season and that's the best he can hope for. Those who say he still has his part to play, where does Holtgate and Funes Mori fit into that equation? Both are better options than Jags, surely?
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Agree on this, we just cant risk him next season, top guy, championship team needs to come in and make an offer to him, free transfer of course
 
St. Domingo said:
I think he'll be given a free transfer, he won't want to sit on the bench all season and that's the best he can hope for. Those who say he still has his part to play, where does Holtgate and Funes Mori fit into that equation? Both are better options than Jags, surely?
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Funes mori is never a good option, really hope we can get rid of him this summer.
 
Gwladys St. Glory said:
Or...why would you leave behind all the hard work you've put in over the last decade trying to keep a perennial underdog playing at the highest level they can, when that effort is finally seeing some concrete upside?

If he leaves, fair play to him. I wouldn't want to, I'd want to stay and fight for some much laboured after silverware. I don't think we're exactly pushing him out the door here but the club does have to start moving forward as much as it can and I'm pretty sure he understands that.
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Be made up to see him lift some silverware.

At the very least he deserves his testimonial before he leaves us.
 
evilwebby said:
A eloquent argument, well made.

My counter to it would be that we aren't talking about extending his contract for another season like we seemed to do endlessly with Osman & Hibbert - he's already contracted to us until summer of 2018! If Jags wanted to go to another club then that is different, but if he feels like he wants to stay here and fight for place (or just warm the bench) then the club is contractually obliged to honour the contract and allow him to do that, and I would personally welcome it. From his own pov, could Sheff Utd afford to pay him the same wages as we do? If not, then put yourself in his shoes and ask why would you take a drop in pay a year early.
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A fair counter. Your right, he still has a year left. Would shef united pay him 55k a week, or whatever he's on here? No, probably not. It'd be a loan deal with them paying some of his wages. How much they would be willing to pay would depend on any move going through or not.

However to counter your argument I would say that if they are his level and are the best side he could move to I'd say this shows that he is no longer what we need to move forward.

I think we will find this moral argument more and more as we try to become a "top" club. You often find a lot of these side are (for lack of better words), nasty and ruthless. This in turn will probably make us unlikeable to other fans and some of our own fans. However, in this cutthroat business that's what you need to win things. I often look at some "big/money clubs" e.g. Chelsea and think "you're horrible". Horrible club that have sold their sole with awful fans worshipping c**** like JT and Cole. But at the end of the day they were winners who didn't care what anyone thought of them and would do anything for glory. Sadly this is what's needed.

This is also a problem for me as I like that we are a club that seem to have a heart. Just hope We can keep the good off the field stuff, EITC etc. also keep ticket prices relatively low as well so local fans can still go.

Anyway Jags: I would move him on in a nice way this summer but if he decides to stay I'm sure he could offer something, even if it is off the field support to the new boys. Respect your opinion though.
 

LinekersLegs said:
Be made up to see him lift some silverware.

At the very least he deserves his testimonial before he leaves us.
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4116193-2174406.jpg


Both of them and Seamus etc.
 
OneTrueLegend said:
I still think given the volume of games next season, jags will start about 30 games, if we play 3 at the back, I think we need his experience for another season at least
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If Jags starts 30 games next season not only has something gone dramatically wrong, but we're also stuffed. The season just ended showed clearly that whilst he can still perform pretty well in isolated games, his standard drops a bit more with every extra consecutive start - presumably his age simply leaves him needing more time to recover and that is not something I blame him for, but we can't simply ignore it. He is good for starting maybe a dozen games, and none of them should be back to back. His pace is not what it was, his positioning is slipping because his pace is going, and he was never much cop in the air. He will still start a handful of European games though, and I'd love to see him lift a trophy with us.
 
Tree13 said:
If Jags starts 30 games next season not only has something gone dramatically wrong, but we're also stuffed. The season just ended showed clearly that whilst he can still perform pretty well in isolated games, his standard drops a bit more with every extra consecutive start. He is good for starting maybe a dozen games, and none of them should be back to back.
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not really, if we do well in both domestic cups and get to the later stages of the Europa league, that would be about 20 games and over 38 premier league games, with playing 3 at the back and having 6 CB's, I would expect Jags to start 10 Premiership games, you have to consider injuries and suspensions as well. based on the starting 3 being; Keane, Williams and Funes Mori, then the back up 3 being Jags, Holgate and Pennington.

The main problem will be if we change formation and go to a 2 CB's, becasue Jags would then probably be 5th choice, behind Keane, Williams, Holgte and Funes Mori, then Jags will probably only play 10 games, unless we have an injury crisis
 
Jagielka has been part of the defensive problem for two years.

He costs us goals, apart from a short spell at the end of last season, He was terrible. Even in the good spell he was still making mistakes.

Its time to move on, he's been one of my favourite players, but the people who thinking he should stay are just mixing up when he was actually good as oppose to the last few seasons.

He's been absolutely fantastic through his time here, but if he stays past this summer he will go down the route of howard, distin etc and that's not what I want.
 

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