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President Obama

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I have to go with Rob, trying to attach Communism to the concept of Socialised Healthcare is ridiculous. Thats what the Republicans would have you believe, as clearly they tried to paint Obama as a commy when you have zero concept of what socialism is. It was a slur designed to panic people into switching vote last minute and happily it failed.

There are some things which, in my opinion, should be the domain of your respective countries goverment - a social resposibility to look after the health of its people and lets be honest, the health care system in the States looks after those who are fortunate to have adequate healthcare either through their employer or through the necessary finances for their own private healthcare plan. People die because of the inadequacies in this system but hey you dont know them so its no importante.

Capitalism breeds a "[Poor language removed] you" attitude to fellow man.

VIVA LE REVOLUCION comrades.

chucks flare*
 
chicoazul said:
I have to go with Rob, trying to attach Communism to the concept of Socialised Healthcare is ridiculous. Thats what the Republicans would have you believe, as clearly they tried to paint Obama as a commy when you have zero concept of what socialism is. It was a slur designed to panic people into switching vote last minute and happily it failed.

There are some things which, in my opinion, should be the domain of your respective countries goverment - a social resposibility to look after the health of its people and lets be honest, the health care system in the States looks after those who are fortunate to have adequate healthcare either through their employer or through the necessary finances for their own private healthcare plan. People die because of the inadequacies in this system but hey you dont know them so its no importante.

Capitalism breeds a "[Poor language removed] you" attitude to fellow man.

VIVA LE REVOLUCION comrades.

chucks flare*
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after lighting cohiba with it
 


Rob said:
and if anybody is wondering wtf I'm ranting about its here -

Socialized medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Socialized medicine is a term used primarily in the United States to refer to certain kinds of publicly-funded health care.[1] The term is used most frequently, and often pejoratively, in the U.S. political debate concerning health care"...

"A poll released in February 2008, conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health and Harris Interactive, indicated that Americans are currently divided in their opinions of socialized medicine, and this split correlates strongly with their political party affiliation"

re-read the bold bit, you disagree with universal health care, not because you think its a bad idea, but because you wear a red shirt and not a blue one....
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Rob, I think that you really missed on the interpretation of my healtchare post. I disagree with universal healthcare because we already offer taxpayer funded healthcare to the indigent, the poor, and for that matter illegal immigrants. So while you are all wound up trying to make this a republican, democrat issue that is not my angle.

I am proud of the US system, it’s amazing technology, the advancements it makes, the care that it dispenses, its comparative efficiency, and the safety net that it has for the poor.

Just because we don’t use the same model to dispense care to the poor doesn’t mean it is wrong. I may be putting words in your mouth so shoot back if you like… but seems that the advocates of universal healthcare have a problem with the US system in that the same, exact, healthcare is dispensed to everyone in the same egalitarian mode.

Please reread my post #237 again in the light of the above. Just because we don’t dispense healthcare in the same, socialized model that other progressive countries do doesn’t make it wrong. Thank you very much but I will also suggest that the US not integrate Sharia law into the US legal system. That recent move in the UK is ludicrous and flatly stupid but I can’t argue… it is “enlightened and progressive”.

And I would prefer that you not be my spokesman. Nowhere in my post did I mention the word communism. Didn’t come up once. To summarize, I don’t think we need mimic the classic, socialized medical model used by other countries. We already have taxpayer funded healthcare for those that can not afford it. I reiterate from my prior, when the government becomes more heavily involved, our care will become dispensed more with the efficiency and passion of the department of motor vehicles.
 
see , im confused now.

havent acorn members already been convicted of voter fraud of epic scale (atleast 2000 fraudulant votes each member -7 members) ?
obviously 7 bad apples doesnt mean you have to chop down the acorn tree , so to speak .
but bush rigged an election and now america has to ensure that doesnt happen again , for repulicans and democrats.

obama was a key player in the training , running , funding , campaigning and legal representation of acorn - thats fact.
my line of thinking is that if he cant keep that organisation in order , if there is no clarity in its objectives goals and proceedings , then what would an administration run by him be like ?
i think pointing out these issues would ensure obama doesnt make the same mistakes twice and in the long run would enhance his presidency.


you dont want another clinton or bush , constantly in the media being accussed of mix ups , cover ups , bias and shadey goings on.
question , check and question again , get all the skeletons out of the closet before january 20th , then when he takes over , let him actually concentrate on what a president should be doing.


ps just becouse some are against obama - doesnt make them a neo-nazi .its the eqiuvalant of democrats being called kopites or worse.
neither is pc or right

everyone has a right to a political view without name calling.

pps , why has bush and the republicans never been held to account for there rigging ? surely the evidence is there ?
 
TX Tiburon said:
Universal care… Ah yes… one of the holy grails of the left. If, by universal care, you mean socialized medicine then yes, America does not have socialized medicine. But it is a little known, unpublicized fact that the indigent and persons of low net worth (even illegal immigrants) still have access to healthcare in the US. Not-for-profit and community hospitals across the nation are required to provide care to the indigent and those unable to pay fully. This is a requirement of maintaining their tax-exempt status. The amount of indigent care they provide each year is closely monitored.

The care provided may not be BMW-quality care but it is, at least, Ford-level. Good, solid, quality care for no cost. What a deal. These not-for-profit, community hospitals are by no means inferior in quality either. They include the likes of Mass General in Boston, Ceders-Sinai in Los Angeles, Baylor in Dallas, Barnes Jewish Christian in St. Louis, etc.

The numbers of people commonly quoted as having “no access” to healthcare is drastically overstated. The numbers stated range from 20-70 million but is confused or comingled with the number of people in the US who are not covered by health insurance. But that is not equivalent to the number of people who do not have access. That number of people who do not have coverage includes a large group who can afford insurance but choose not to due to wealth or a perceived lack of need for insurance. But as I stated earlier, even those that can’t afford insurance coverage or healthcare costs can still receive care.

Do people still fall through the gaps? Yes, unfortunately and I don’t know the numbers. But does not this same thing happen even in countries that have the vaunted universal care? You can provide the care but you can’t make people use it. Thousands of people who have perfectly good insurance coverage here in the US will die each year because they choose not to access the care that is available to them.

I just don't see the need for socialized medicine. Once government gets involved we will have have our healthcare dispensed with the passion and efficiency of the department of motor vehicles. Canada, does this sound familiar?
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you're right, people do butcher the statistics. the main troubling one is that 47 million americans have no access to routine healthcare. this figure excludes people under medicare and medicaid, in fact the majority of these people are middle and working class. hardly a few people falling through the cracks eh?

and if canada's system is so terrible, why are people in border states applying for candian citizenship for better coverage, and why about 5 years ago, when we had a shortage of flu vaccine, did we need to get it all from Canada?

arguably, canada's system is not great, and it should not be the model for the US's system. but health care costs are constantly increasing, and we should remember that health care costs aren't a definitive figure, unscrupulous pharmaceutical activity is driving up costs. try to watch a half hour of tv without seeing a commercial for some kid of medicine. the united states spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized nation, universal medicine would greatly bring down those costs
 
toffeestillidie said:
you're right, people do butcher the statistics. the main troubling one is that 47 million americans have no access to routine healthcare. this figure excludes people under medicare and medicaid, in fact the majority of these people are middle and working class. hardly a few people falling through the cracks eh?

and if canada's system is so terrible, why are people in border states applying for candian citizenship for better coverage, and why about 5 years ago, when we had a shortage of flu vaccine, did we need to get it all from Canada?

arguably, canada's system is not great, and it should not be the model for the US's system. but health care costs are constantly increasing, and we should remember that health care costs aren't a definitive figure, unscrupulous pharmaceutical activity is driving up costs. try to watch a half hour of tv without seeing a commercial for some kid of medicine. the united states spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized nation, universal medicine would greatly bring down those costs
Click to expand...

You're question should have been:

"If Canada's care is so good, why are people coming to the United States from Canada for healthcare?"

People on border states applying for Canadian citizenship for "better healthcare?" That's a new one. You sure you didn't confuse those people with all the liberals who said after the 2004 election that "If George Bush wins again, I'm moving to Canada." ??

And I'm still waiting for someone to address the inescapable fact that TX Tiburon made about healthcare in our country. The point that no one can be denied healthcare in this country based on the ability to pay. No one. If you are hurt, injured, sick, etc... and you go to a hospital, THEY CANNOT REFUSE TO TREAT YOU. I'm baffled honestly as to why that simple concept hasn't been grasped yet.

We don't need socialized medicine here. We don't want socialized medicine here. Simple really.
 

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