President Obama

[GrandOldTeam]

Sometimes Rob, SOMETIMES... In the long run, a war/stern stance benefits the majority. Ignoring Putin wouldn't be the way to go.

Take the second world war for example. A war of such mass proportion could have been prevented if earlier, swift Bush type action was taken. We all know what happened, everyone - especially America ignored the issue for as long as possible until it was literally right in their face.

 

[uknightbreed]

also......

can anyone tell me about obamas link to an organisation called acorn ?

i found this article but its a few months old.

is this made up sour grapes or is it truth ?

very dodgy.

 

[uknightbreed]

I hope not, because that would be the start of a new cold war...

I think with Russia its a case of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

Never trust a Russian.

yes but i get the impression either thats what putin wants , or is it he knows thats just what the west dont want , so he does what he likes.

its a shame becouse russia made leaps and bounds of progress internationaly pre putin. then he steps in and sends the country back decades and rules by fear .

history has taught us that you can not stand by and let people like him do what they want.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

yes but i get the impression either thats what putin wants , or is it he knows thats just what the west dont want , so he does what he likes.

its a shame becouse russia made leaps and bounds of progress internationaly pre putin. then he steps in and sends the country back decades and rules by fear .

history has taught us that you can not stand by and let people like him do what they want.

Spot on. Some peoples opinions regarding Russia/Iraq/Afganistan absolutely astound me.

 

[Rob]

From reading some of those articles, it sounds like some group of people don't like this ACORN organization at all and are trying there very best to throw as much [Poor language removed] as possible at it, obviously some of it is sticking.

what they call "vote rigging" was in fact that some of the registrations for people had invalid addresses, considering the people ACORN is trying to help, it wouldn't surprise me that some had "invalid addresses".

ACORN from what I can tell helps low to middle income people and familes.

I imagine some people don't want these people to improve themselves as that would mean these people would have less people to look down upon while they are sipping champagne and playing golf.

 

[uknightbreed]

From reading some of those articles, it sounds like some group of people don't like this ACORN organization at all and are trying there very best to throw as much [Poor language removed] as possible at it, obviously some of it is sticking.

what they call "vote rigging" was in fact that some of the registrations for people had invalid addresses, considering the people ACORN is trying to help, it wouldn't surprise me that some had "invalid addresses".

ACORN from what I can tell helps low to middle income people and familes.

I imagine some people don't want these people to improve themselves as that would mean these people would have less people to look down upon while they are sipping champagne and playing golf.

yes but this is the catch 22 isnt it.

if you dont help then your heartless , if you do help (ie give bad debt to people who cant/wont pay it back) then it contributes to the economy going bust , loss of jobs and a lot of people who earnt there houses through years of hard work losing there homes.

 

[TX Bill]

From reading some of those articles, it sounds like some group of people don't like this ACORN organization at all and are trying there very best to throw as much [Poor language removed] as possible at it, obviously some of it is sticking.

what they call "vote rigging" was in fact that some of the registrations for people had invalid addresses, considering the people ACORN is trying to help, it wouldn't surprise me that some had "invalid addresses".

ACORN from what I can tell helps low to middle income people and familes.

I imagine some people don't want these people to improve themselves as that would mean these people would have less people to look down upon while they are sipping champagne and playing golf.

Rob.

Don't know if you are aware of this but the FBI is investigating ACORN. They had just a bit more than a "few" invalid addresses.

The real irony is that if the Republicans had a right wing organization doing exactly what ACORN, a left wing organization, was doing for the Democrats, it would have been reported breathlessly by the MSM over here.

But since ACORN was committing voter fraud (there really isn't any arguement) for the Dems, it didn't fit the narrative. Therefore no reporting on it.

(Actually, I believe that someone at CNN did to a report on it to the shock of everyone in the blogosphere but that was the extent of the reporting)

 

[Rook]

Speaking of Obama, he's a West Ham fan. He has a sister? in London and has attended a few matches, the last one being in 2003. Apparently West Ham has already invited him to come to a match. I'm sure he'll enjoy watching them in the championship .

Judging by West Ham's run of matches he'd make a better gaffer than Zola has.

 

[Rob]

well, there is a difference between helping someone to make something of themselves and giving them free money everyone under the sun knows they can't pay back.

 

[Rob]

Rob.

Don't know if you are aware of this but the FBI is investigating ACORN. They had just a bit more than a "few" invalid addresses.

The real irony is that if the Republicans had a right wing organization doing exactly what ACORN, a left wing organization, was doing for the Democrats, it would have been reported breathlessly by the MSM over here.

But since ACORN was committing voter fraud (there really isn't any arguement) for the Dems, it didn't fit the narrative. Therefore no reporting on it.

(Actually, I believe that someone at CNN did to a report on it to the shock of everyone in the blogosphere but that was the extent of the reporting)

Did a bit more reading (well, attempted to) and found these two articles.

www.kansascity.com | 11/02/2008 | Florida's Republican governor discounts ACORN charges

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/RNC-In-Case-You-Missed/story.aspx?guid={300AABBF-E10F-4644-9647-5906497CE3D1}

It just seems to me that people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.... but I could be wrong.

In relation to Obama, he helped this organization while he was a lawyer in chicago, if anything you could say this is a noble cause he took up, albeit with an alterior motive in that he wants these people to vote because they will more than likely vote for him.

 

[toffeestillidie]

Rob.

Don't know if you are aware of this but the FBI is investigating ACORN. They had just a bit more than a "few" invalid addresses.

The real irony is that if the Republicans had a right wing organization doing exactly what ACORN, a left wing organization, was doing for the Democrats, it would have been reported breathlessly by the MSM over here.

But since ACORN was committing voter fraud (there really isn't any arguement) for the Dems, it didn't fit the narrative. Therefore no reporting on it.

(Actually, I believe that someone at CNN did to a report on it to the shock of everyone in the blogosphere but that was the extent of the reporting)

are you kidding me? it was all over the airwaves for a while, and i don't just mean independent media, but major media networks covered it as well.

as for the seriousness of the scandal, well i worked for the community organization Working America this past summer, they're a pro labor interest group, and while they don't directly register people to vote, we register people as "members" so as to boost our membership numbers, which gives us more clout when talking to politicians.

well, like ACORN employees, when we signed up members, we were required to meet quotas. one of my coworkers was fired, because he was found to have falsified some of the member signups. His fake information should not be enough to condemn the entire organization, it was just one instance of an individual messing up.

with ACORN, they directly register people to vote. Now, in every single polling place in america, voters are asked to produce identification (in the form of a photo-id or voter registration card, and i believe some places accept alternative forms as well). the problem with ACORN was people registering bogus names, but for this to turn into voter fraud, someone would have to have false identification bearing the same bogus name, which is a problem that would go far beyond ACORN.

Many people maintain that the attacks on ACORN are politicized more than anything. There are two things people should get straight about this. First, ACORN as an organization isn't necessarily bad, and they have accomplished some very important progressive goals in the past. Second, supporting ACORN does not make you a bad person. Both Obama and McCain have praised ACORN's get out the vote efforts at one time or another. Obama represented them in a civil suit in 1995, but this does not mean he was involved with any voter fraud.

The type of scandals people have cited with ACORN include a person found copying names out of a phonebook. Exactly how could this turn into voter fraud, its not as though the person who is registered through this effort will be compelled to vote democratic. It should also be noted that ACORN themselves flagged most of the fraudulent ballots themselves, but were bound by law to submit them to election officials anyways (probably to prevent them from picking and choosing who they want to register).

To me, I'd say this FBI raid was more politicized than anything else, and I highly doubt they will find anything remotely damning

 

[TX Tiburon]

For all the arguments for and against, let me leave you with this to chew on...

"The US is the ONLY wealthy, industrialized nation that does not provide universal health care, according to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences and others.[1][2] Universal health care is provided in most developed countries, in many developing countries, and is the trend worldwide."

Universal health care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Universal care… Ah yes… one of the holy grails of the left. If, by universal care, you mean socialized medicine then yes, America does not have socialized medicine. But it is a little known, unpublicized fact that the indigent and persons of low net worth (even illegal immigrants) still have access to healthcare in the US. Not-for-profit and community hospitals across the nation are required to provide care to the indigent and those unable to pay fully. This is a requirement of maintaining their tax-exempt status. The amount of indigent care they provide each year is closely monitored.

The care provided may not be BMW-quality care but it is, at least, Ford-level. Good, solid, quality care for no cost. What a deal. These not-for-profit, community hospitals are by no means inferior in quality either. They include the likes of Mass General in Boston, Ceders-Sinai in Los Angeles, Baylor in Dallas, Barnes Jewish Christian in St. Louis, etc.

The numbers of people commonly quoted as having “no access” to healthcare is drastically overstated. The numbers stated range from 20-70 million but is confused or comingled with the number of people in the US who are not covered by health insurance. But that is not equivalent to the number of people who do not have access. That number of people who do not have coverage includes a large group who can afford insurance but choose not to due to wealth or a perceived lack of need for insurance. But as I stated earlier, even those that can’t afford insurance coverage or healthcare costs can still receive care.

Do people still fall through the gaps? Yes, unfortunately and I don’t know the numbers. But does not this same thing happen even in countries that have the vaunted universal care? You can provide the care but you can’t make people use it. Thousands of people who have perfectly good insurance coverage here in the US will die each year because they choose not to access the care that is available to them.

I just don't see the need for socialized medicine. Once government gets involved we will have have our healthcare dispensed with the passion and efficiency of the department of motor vehicles. Canada, does this sound familiar?

 

[TX Bill]

are you kidding me? it was all over the airwaves for a while, and i don't just mean independent media, but major media networks covered it as well.

as for the seriousness of the scandal, well i worked for the community organization Working America this past summer, they're a pro labor interest group, and while they don't directly register people to vote, we register people as "members" so as to boost our membership numbers, which gives us more clout when talking to politicians.

well, like ACORN employees, when we signed up members, we were required to meet quotas. one of my coworkers was fired, because he was found to have falsified some of the member signups. His fake information should not be enough to condemn the entire organization, it was just one instance of an individual messing up.

with ACORN, they directly register people to vote. Now, in every single polling place in america, voters are asked to produce identification (in the form of a photo-id or voter registration card, and i believe some places accept alternative forms as well). the problem with ACORN was people registering bogus names, but for this to turn into voter fraud, someone would have to have false identification bearing the same bogus name, which is a problem that would go far beyond ACORN.

Many people maintain that the attacks on ACORN are politicized more than anything. There are two things people should get straight about this. First, ACORN as an organization isn't necessarily bad, and they have accomplished some very important progressive goals in the past. Second, supporting ACORN does not make you a bad person. Both Obama and McCain have praised ACORN's get out the vote efforts at one time or another. Obama represented them in a civil suit in 1995, but this does not mean he was involved with any voter fraud.

The type of scandals people have cited with ACORN include a person found copying names out of a phonebook. Exactly how could this turn into voter fraud, its not as though the person who is registered through this effort will be compelled to vote democratic. It should also be noted that ACORN themselves flagged most of the fraudulent ballots themselves, but were bound by law to submit them to election officials anyways (probably to prevent them from picking and choosing who they want to register).

To me, I'd say this FBI raid was more politicized than anything else, and I highly doubt they will find anything remotely damning

The FBI raid on ACORN was political? It's official, I've heard it all now.

1) The major news networks did NOT cover ACORN's fraudulent activities as you suggest. It was well covered in the blogosphere however. Had any one of the major networks covered their activities to any extent and dug deeper than maybe a cursory mention on the news, they public would have a much better idea of how they operate. I guess if I had an analogy, I'd say I'd have loved to have seen CBS cover ACORN with the same zeal and gusto that Dan Rather and Mary Mapes covered George Bush's National Guard service back in 2004.

2) Don't know anything about Working America but I don't have any problem with an organization driving membership for a worthy cause. I do have a problem with any organization such as ACORN that injected itself into the political process that we hold dear here in the USA by falsifying voting registrations. Love to know my vote could be cancelled by such methods.

3) One way that I'm confident we could completely eliminate these types of shenanigans is through legislation that would allow proper photo identification before voting. Right there you could eliminate around 99% of the fraud that occurs during the voting process. So let me ask you: "Would you support legislation that would require a voter to identify himself or herself as the person who is listed on the voting roll and who is actually holding the voter ID card?" I can tell you which political party in this country is against such legislation and I'm confident you don't need to guess which one it is.

 

[Rob]

well if you had read what the man said he said its not the policy of the business to do anything illegal but they have caught employees doing illegal things and they have been fired, however as he also said, even false ballots have to be sent so that they arent seen as choosing which ballots to send.

Why is it that both of you started your posts with a put down?

Socialized Medicine.... give me some credit pal, your rewording of things to try and make them appear worse because of some possible link to socialism is pathetic.

Universal Health Care, is something so basic that nobody outside of the U.S. can understand why a country such as America doesnt have it, and I can only think that its down to people like you using fear to scare people against it.

Universal Health care is nothing to do with socialism and I wish in future you would keep your pejoratives to yourself.

 

[Rob]

and if anybody is wondering wtf I'm ranting about its here -

Socialized medicine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

for the lazy here are some choice cuts.

"Socialized medicine is a term used primarily in the United States to refer to certain kinds of publicly-funded health care.[1] The term is used most frequently, and often pejoratively, in the U.S. political debate concerning health care"

"Most industrialized countries, and many developing countries, operate some form of publicly-funded health care with universal coverage as the goal. According to the Institute of Medicine and others, the United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not provide universal health care.[12][13]"

"The term is often used in the U.S. to evoke negative sentiment toward public control of the health care system by associating it with socialism, which has negative connotations in American political culture"


As a Brit I'm very proud of our NHS it isnt perfect, but as I stated earlier in the thread, in my early life I was in and out of hospitals a lot and I dont have a single bad word to say about the NHS. I'll let the quotes speak for themselves.

"Today it is the world's largest publicly funded health service"

"It was set up on July 5 1948 to "provide healthcare for all citizens, based on need, not the ability to pay.""

"A poll released in February 2008, conducted by the Harvard School of Public Health and Harris Interactive, indicated that Americans are currently divided in their opinions of socialized medicine, and this split correlates strongly with their political party affiliation"

re-read the bold bit, you disagree with universal health care, not because you think its a bad idea, but because you wear a red shirt and not a blue one.
With Obama now as president elect I hope his dream of purple shirts comes true, where people think for themselves and don't just follow the party line.