Prostitution - Should We Legalise It?

[GrandOldTeam]

I am opening a can of worms here but hopefully it will turn into an interesting thread.

The worlds oldest profession - it will exist no matter what and it always will. I wont go into much detail because I dont like influencing the direction of a thread from the first post and I would like to to see initial views and opinions without influencing them (doing a hefty piece on it), but a few quick facts...

In 2001, £770m was spent on prostitution - a random comparison to £400m Britons spent going to the cinema

Possible Pros?;

Protection for sex workers (assault, exploitation and drug dependency)

Some argue that allowing prostitutes to work in licensed premises would also help prevent child prostitution, people trafficking and slavery.

Regular checks would reduce STD

I personally think it would definitely reduce rape.

Government could raise £250m a year in tax alone (2001)

Prostitution is part of the UK's growing shadow economy, estimated by the International Monetary Fund to be worth 13 per cent of gross domestic product, or about one pound in every eight. (2001)

I'll stop there...

It happens, is it time we stop the British attitude of ignoring it, admit it, legalise it and while offering greater protection for all (more STD control, sex worker protection in reducing pimps etc) and tax it? Opinions?

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Other than reducing rape i agree with all that.

Even if you disagree with it surely there are way more downsides to it while it is illegal than there ever would be if it were legalised.

I guess one of the reasons it wont be legalised is because no goverment wants to be the ones to encourage it and make it look like a legitimate business.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Other than reducing rape i agree with all that.

Even if you disagree with it surely there are way more downsides to it while it is illegal than there ever would be if it were legalised.

I guess one of the reasons it wont be legalised is because no goverment wants to be the ones to encourage it and make it look like a legitimate business.

Agreed.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

It's legalised in Holland for a few years now. It's now a tax-paying profession and I do like the way the Dutch government are handling this age old problem. Same with the legalising of soft drugs really. Honestly believe the Dutch government really hit the nail on the head with these two concepts.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Agreed.

You know there would be a huge moral backlash as well if they even thought about it cause people would be too shortsighted to even consider the benefits.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

It's legalised in Holland for a few years now. It's now a tax-paying profession and I do like the way the Dutch government are handling this age old problem. Same with the legalising of soft drugs really. Honestly believe the Dutch government really hit the nail on the head with these two concepts.

Are there any downsides you can think of to it being legal in Holland?

Is there much criticism of it?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

An estimated 80,000 women earn a living as prostitutes in Britain, which, unlike other Western countries such as the Netherlands and Germany, has not introduced fully legal, regulated brothels.

Should Britain fully legalise brothels to provide a regulated, relatively safe environment for prostitutes? Or would this send out the wrong signals to society?

Instead of permitting brothels, should the Government crack down on some of the problems associated with the trade, such as drug dealing and people trafficking?

If you support legalising brothels, would you mind if one opened on the same street as your home? If you live or regularly travel abroad, what is your experience of cities where such establishments exist openly?

 

[evertonianstu]

Yes. Legalise it and take the problems off the street.

 

[Nebbiolo]

I'll pop a few downsides to legalising brothels (remember, prostitution itself is not illegal, it is soliciting for sex that is against the law).

1) Issues of consent. It would be nice to think that each of the 80,000 prostitutes in the UK fully consents to her body being used for money. It's not clear to me that this is the case. Even forgetting about women being forced on the "game", there are women, or girls effectively, who are vulnerable and feel driven to sell their bodies. If these people could properly rationalise their behaviour, they would no doubt admit to despising what these men do to them. To me that says consent is given under duress. Plus, how many young women might be tempted into prostitution merely because it is a quick fix to a problem? Would these women becomes prostitutes if brothels were illegal? Some certainly wouldn't.

2) Where are the brothels going to be located? It seems likely that the vast majority of people would object to having a brothel on their doorstep. You can imagine trying to sell a house next door to one of these establishments.

3) Prostitution is wrong. This is a moral judgment, but one that is shared by pretty much the whole of humankind. Find a society where prostitutes, not Geisha girls and the like, are respected because of their profession. You won't find this society since universally it is deemed wrong. If you think it is right and fine and dandy, just ask yourselves whether you would be happy for your sister, mother, wife or girlfriend to be a prostitute. I'm certain that when it comes down to it, even the most liberal of us would be horrified at that situation.

4) Prostitution, particularly legalised brothels, encourages men to be unfaithful. Admittedly, these men are the guilty parties, but it nonetheless creates a climate where sex is seen as something akin to a commodity. Think of their families and wives.

5) It is immoral that government should take tax revenue from the sale of sex. This is not the sign of a healthy society, but a broken one. The duty of government is the well-being of its citizens, not in colluding with them just to make a fast buck. Like you said, it sends out the wrong signals to society and threatens to erode that fabric that holds us together.

6) It will encourage sex-tourism. Imagine the bus loads and plane loads of men gagging for it all making their way to the nearest brothel. Not a pretty site, particularly for a woman. It is also known that in areas where prostitutes work, innocent women do get approached and harrassed more regularly than outside these areas.

I think you're pretty much clued up on the upsides of legalisation. Check out the Wolfenden report of 1957, which is still considered a turning point in attitudes to prostitution (and homosexuality).

I would personally argue for some change of the law but it needs to be really well thought out and we would have to learn from the mistakes of other countries. I wouldn't want us just jumping into this.

 

[Blue Ray]

Dont want my Mrs to see this thread. I give her enough money as it is.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I'll pop a few downsides to legalising brothels (remember, prostitution itself is not illegal, it is soliciting for sex that is against the law).

1) Issues of consent. It would be nice to think that each of the 80,000 prostitutes in the UK fully consents to her body being used for money. It's not clear to me that this is the case. Even forgetting about women being forced on the "game", there are women, or girls effectively, who are vulnerable and feel driven to sell their bodies. If these people could properly rationalise their behaviour, they would no doubt admit to despising what these men do to them. To me that says consent is given under duress. Plus, how many young women might be tempted into prostitution merely because it is a quick fix to a problem? Would these women becomes prostitutes if brothels were illegal? Some certainly wouldn't.

But Neb, thats not really the argument, it happens regardless. Strict regulation by the government would no doubt improve things - the women would be given greater support.

2) Where are the brothels going to be located? It seems likely that the vast majority of people would object to having a brothel on their doorstep. You can imagine trying to sell a house next door to one of these establishments.

That is a problem - but go to any neighbourhood which has a problem with street soliciting and I guarentee if an alternative would be that a discreet building with say, 3 women which is regulated is an option, I am sure it would be preferred.

3) Prostitution is wrong. This is a moral judgment, but one that is shared by pretty much the whole of humankind. Find a society where prostitutes, not Geisha girls and the like, are respected because of their profession. You won't find this society since universally it is deemed wrong. If you think it is right and fine and dandy, just ask yourselves whether you would be happy for your sister, mother, wife or girlfriend to be a prostitute. I'm certain that when it comes down to it, even the most liberal of us would be horrified at that situation.

It is, theres no disputing that, but again, this isnt the argument. While I can see the view that it may send out the wrong signals to society, I couldn't really give a damn, at the end of the day it happens. You could argue that legalising prostitution is a no-brainer: the women are kept healthy and safe (compared to the streets), do not pass on or acquire disease and get a fair share of the money that their work generates. The whole process is removed from the exploitative power of criminals. Police are freed to pursue more worthwhile targets.

4) Prostitution, particularly legalised brothels, encourages men to be unfaithful. Admittedly, these men are the guilty parties, but it nonetheless creates a climate where sex is seen as something akin to a commodity. Think of their families and wives.

Prostitution saved my marriage and helped several ladies pay their rent. Once I realised that my incessant mid-life cravings could be easily and safely satisfied - I actually stopped obsessing over it and stopped lusting for my female associates. I now enjoy true freedom from lust and a happy 20-year marriage - and I owe it to knowing that sex is just a phone call away. Stop the pimps, legalise it. Morality? What male asked for this wanton role?

5) It is immoral that government should take tax revenue from the sale of sex. This is not the sign of a healthy society, but a broken one. The duty of government is the well-being of its citizens, not in colluding with them just to make a fast buck. Like you said, it sends out the wrong signals to society and threatens to erode that fabric that holds us together.

Immoral? Yes, but the money has to go somewere, What if the money is re-invested well? Not only that, the girls get a fair share of the money that their work generates. The whole process is then removed from the exploitative power of criminals.

6) It will encourage sex-tourism. Imagine the bus loads and plane loads of men gagging for it all making their way to the nearest brothel. Not a pretty site, particularly for a woman. It is also known that in areas where prostitutes work, innocent women do get approached and harrassed more regularly than outside these areas.

A negative yes, but I think the postives far outweigh the negatives.

I think you're pretty much clued up on the upsides of legalisation. Check out the Wolfenden report of 1957, which is still considered a turning point in attitudes to prostitution (and homosexuality).

I would personally argue for some change of the law but it needs to be really well thought out and we would have to learn from the mistakes of other countries. I wouldn't want us just jumping into this. [/quote]

Agreed

Sorry for the quick brief replies, quite busy at the moment!

 

[Seamus Colemole]

3) Prostitution is wrong. This is a moral judgment, but one that is shared by pretty much the whole of humankind. Find a society where prostitutes, not Geisha girls and the like, are respected because of their profession. You won't find this society since universally it is deemed wrong. If you think it is right and fine and dandy, just ask yourselves whether you would be happy for your sister, mother, wife or girlfriend to be a prostitute. I'm certain that when it comes down to it, even the most liberal of us would be horrified at that situation.

I guess i'm in the tiny tiny minority then.

If a woman (or man) wishes to have sex with someone for the exchange of money i don't see that morally wrong whatsoever.

Sex is a basic human desire, the wish to have sexual intercourse with a fellow human exists in pretty much all of us. Because it is enjoyable.

As long as it is safe and consensual and she was 100% ok with it i honestly couldn't give a crap if my sister wanted to do so. Good luck to her i'd say.

And whats worse, being an honest above board prostitue in a legal and safe brothel, or going out and getting pissed on a Friday night and shagging someone you've never met? Yet the former is acceptable behavior for the nations youth.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

Are there any downsides you can think of to it being legal in Holland?

Is there much criticism of it?

To be honest, I can't really think of any downsides of legalising prostitution in Holland. I really believe, it's more to the contrary. With the legalisation it's become a lot easier for the government to clamp down on the excesses, like child an illegal immigrants prostitution.

Regarding both drugs and prostitution plolicy, the Dutch have always been renowned for their open mindedness regarding these subjects, so there isn't really much criticism. To be honest, is there any country in Western Europe that's advertising with the 'Red Light District', in the way Amsterdam does?

 

[Nebbiolo]

I know precisely where you're coming from. You're looking at reducing harm and legalisation of brothels might well, on a calculus, reduce the net effect of harm. However, a large proportion of the population don't view things in that way. They see acts as good, indifferent and bad. It's a moral, or deontological position, rather than a utilitarian one. Ask yourself whether you see people as ends in themselves, or just mere means to ends? Because if you're happy with legislating for what you believe is the greater good, you're going to have to trample on deeply ingrained moral principles. And despite what we hear in the media, morality is alive and kicking in the UK and beyond. You also need to ensure that the large proportion of society is on your side or at least feels that its concerns have been given special notice. That would mean engaging with the church, feminist groups, mothers' groups and just about every concerned upstanding citizen there is. Without popular support or acceptance, any move to legalisation will fail. It just wouldn't get through and the politicians would veto it in a second flat. All the issues I drew attention to will be on the minds of people. What you need to be able to do is convince people why you believe it is best to ignore them and to go a different way. Remember, it's not just a few liberal intellectuals that will get involved with a proposal like yours. This is the stuff that people have a field day with and you need some type plan on how to deal with the moral backlash.

 

[Dutch Toffee]

I guess i'm in the tiny tiny minority then.

If a woman (or man) wishes to have sex with someone for the exchange of money i don't see that morally wrong whatsoever.

Sex is a basic human desire, the wish to have sexual intercourse with a fellow human exists in pretty much all of us. Because it is enjoyable.

As long as it is safe and consensual and she was 100% ok with it i honestly couldn't give a crap if my sister wanted to do so. Good luck to her i'd say.

And whats worse, being an honest above board prostitue in a legal and safe brothel, or going out and getting pissed on a Friday night and shagging someone you've never met? Yet the former is acceptable behavior for the nations youth.

Agree with you on most points, but I wouldn't be happy at all if I had a sister who was a prostitute. For the rest, I completely agree with you. Think without prostitutes the number of rapes and sexual assaults would really rocket sky high.