2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[ToffeeTim]

There's a difference between ambition and delusion

Our first 11 is decent. Our squad depth is non-existent

FFP has meant we can't sign players

Getting a new manager isn't going to magically fix that

It shows no lack of ambition to be honest and say "We're in a bad spot now that we need to get through, but when we do we can clear out the deadwood and sign better players so we can kick on"

If I thought a new manager would fix things to any demonstrable degree then fair enough, but I can't think of many other managers who could get better out of this lot right now mid-season

We had one of the greatest managers of all-time in the dugout for us last season and even he struggled to get anything out of this lot

Until the deadwood gets cleared any manager we have is fighting an immediate uphill battle

If we'd brought in someone like Potter or even Nuno then there wouldn't be calls for a sacking right now if we were on the same amount of points

Benitez of course made a rod for his own back in that regard by not showing contrition for his prior comments when he came here, but the fact remains that it's WAY too early to demanding his head right now. A less divisive appointment wouldn't be getting these shots in the first week of November after the start we've had

We were doing okay when we had the full strength squad. Not amazing, but we were beating the weaker teams and giving the better teams a game

I see no reason why that can't happen again once they are back

Benitez is not infallible and there are fair things to criticise him for, but some are going WAY over the top to call for a sacking right now

We all warned this Mikey. We all said this would happen. Everyone knew it when Moshiri made the ridiculous appointment.

I don't want to criticise other supporters because my opinion is worth no more than their's, but I'm very uncomfortable with the sentiments of a lot of our fans. I just find it hard to be associated with a lot of these views. Now that's maybe my fault as much as anything, but I can barely watch this side anymore because I don't see Everton. It's not my club and I can't support something that I am certain in my own mind is going to fail and cause a lot of embarassment to the club. Every loss under Benitez is just another humiliation and more ammo to throw at us.

I personally believe that delusion in this instance is thinking Benitez will be a success here. I asked countless times but no one was able to give me an example of such a divisive appointment turning out well at any time before in history.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Forget safe and stable. Risk is good. Sick of these midtable finishes. All or nothing!

That's the spirit, death or glory! Viva la Rafalution.

Actually, no, I'd take dull as you like functional Ancelotti / Allardyce-ball and 8th-10th at the minute.

 

[davek]

If the fans turn it won't be pretty. It was bad enough last week.

The footy is crap.

It can get as ugly as it gets. No other Everton manager has been sacked that soon, there are perfectly acceptable explanations for the recent downturn, and the mob wont be listened to

 

[BlueToff]

That change in performance between 1st and 2nd half was nothing to do with ability and all to do with showing more character. That's what the manager was able to do at HT: tell them to show character after an appalling first 45 minutes.

Let's not forget the hierarchy of blame here:

Board (particularly Moshiri)

Brands

Players

Manager

It had much more to do with having an actual shape in midfield - which anybody with any sense said we needed from the start.

All this talk of 'character' and 'intensity' is nonsense, as I always said. Manager buzz talk. People getting excited because we ran around a bit in the first few games.

You need a good tactical set up and quality and we had neither last night.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Favre, Fonseca, Potter.

I think we have to take the risk they may walk after a year in our position.

Potter would 100% be the wrong choice here, there is no way our players can play in his image and people wouldn't give him time to turnover the squad to get there.

The two F's trouble me for different reasons, Fonseca never sticks at a club long enough to make a real difference and if you think Benitez is washed up then Favre surely is, definitely looks to be in decline anyhow. Both would be a risk adapting to this league.

Now if there was a cast iron guarantee things would be better under one of those then great, but as there isn't are we going to pay off a manager something north (or over) 10 million when we are cash strapped anyhow to gamble on one of those to possibly end up in the exact same position 6 months later? Whether you want Benitez or not (which I know in your case is somewhere miles west of the later) he knows what an Everton team should look like, with a bit of fight and tenacity. Given that I think he should get a few windows to do that. As I said in another post no manager in the world is coming in last night and making that a whole lot better.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I asked countless times but no one was able to give me an example of such a divisive appointment turning out well at any time before in history.

Well the West Ham fans didn't want Moyes

He's doing alright now like

 

[MACCA75]

We were in the top 4 on Christmas Day last year.
When you look at the fixtures, it’s very easy to see us in the bottom 4 at Christmas this year.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Well the West Ham fans didn't want Moyes

He's doing alright now like

I don't see it as remotely similar to be honest. It's not like he was a Millwall legend. He had also done an ok job to keep them up and they needed to be organised defensively.

We were fine defensively last year but scored far too few goals at home. Now we are a defensive mess and can't even defend basic corners.

 

[BlueToff]

Potter would 100% be the wrong choice here, there is no way our players can play in his image and people wouldn't give him time to turnover the players to get there.

The two F's trouble me for different reasons, Fonseca never sticks at a club long enough to make a real difference and if you think Benitez is washed up then Favre surely is, definitely looks to be in decline anyhow. Both would be a risk adapting to this league.

Now if there was a cast iron guarantee things would be better under one of those then great, but as there isn't are we going to pay off a manager something north (or over) 10 million when we are cash strapped anyhow to gamble on one of those to possibly end up in the exact same position 6 months later? Whether you want Benitez or not (which I know in your case is somewhere miles west of the later) he knows what an Everton team should look like, with a bit of fight and tenacity. Given that I think he should get a few windows to do that. As I said in another post any manager isn't coming in last night and making that a whole lot better.

I don't particularly want Potter but I don't get this argument.

When he took over at Brighton he had a team that had been playing under Chris Hughton. It included Shane Duffy, Lewis Dunk, Pascal Gross, Dale Stephens, Aaron Mooy, a new signing in Bissouma.

These weren't remarkable players. You wouldn't look at Duffy and Dunk and say they're better ball players than our defenders - in fact, throw in Webster and Dan Burn as they have now, and you wouldn't say any of those are better on the ball than our defenders...

Look at Leeds when Bielsa took over. He turned them into what he wanted and then if players didn't fit, he got rid.

This is what managers do. This was my argument last season when people were saying Ancelotti had a 'style'. He didn't, because if he did he would have implemented it and then you improve the players afterwards.

 

[jinkyali]

What I will say is Moyes is evidence it can turn around very quickly.

I think if it wasn't Rafael then possibly questions may not be getting raised.

Not to the extent that they are now.

Shame on all at EFC for putting the club in such a position as well as the manager.

 

[hallamblue]

We all warned this Mikey. We all said this would happen. Everyone knew it when Moshiri made the ridiculous appointment.

I don't want to criticise other supporters because my opinion is worth no more than their's, but I'm very uncomfortable with the sentiments of a lot of our fans. I just find it hard to be associated with a lot of these views. Now that's maybe my fault as much as anything, but I can barely watch this side anymore because I don't see Everton. It's not my club and I can't support something that I am certain in my own mind is going to fail and cause a lot of embarassment to the club. Every loss under Benitez is just another humiliation and more ammo to throw at us.

I personally believe that delusion in this instance is thinking Benitez will be a success here. I asked countless times but no one was able to give me an example of such a divisive appointment turning out well at any time before in history.

George Graham at Spurs wasn't bad.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Potter would 100% be the wrong choice here, there is no way our players can play in his image and people wouldn't give him time to turnover the squad to get there.

The two F's trouble me for different reasons, Fonseca never sticks at a club long enough to make a real difference and if you think Benitez is washed up then Favre surely is, definitely looks to be in decline anyhow. Both would be a risk adapting to this league.

Now if there was a cast iron guarantee things would be better under one of those then great, but as there isn't are we going to pay off a manager something north (or over) 10 million when we are cash strapped anyhow to gamble on one of those to possibly end up in the exact same position 6 months later? Whether you want Benitez or not (which I know in your case is somewhere miles west of the later) he knows what an Everton team should look like, with a bit of fight and tenacity. Given that I think he should get a few windows to do that. As I said in another post no manager in the world is coming in last night and making that a whole lot better.

Potter is a top manager. Exactly what we need - a squad builder who is young and hungry to succeed.

 

[hallamblue]

Potter is a top manager. Exactly what we need - a squad builder who is young and hungry to succeed.

He needs his own players though.

 

[ToffeeTim]

George Graham at Spurs wasn't bad.

Slightly before my time, but I'll give you that one.

I can't remember how well he did at Spurs tbf. Did he win anything?

 

[ToffeeTim]

He needs his own players though.

And we need an enormous overhaul of the squad with contracts expiring.

So exactly the right time for him.