2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[roy vernon]

….strange how some are euphorically judging him for a win who made excuses for all the defeats.

I can give them some reasons for the defeats. 2 man midfield, shambolic defending and Rondon anywhere near the pitch.

 

[4737carlin]

Gretar Steinsson (ex-Bolton) recruited by his pal Brands, is the head of scouting. He should be next out the door.

See this fella isnt a house hold name to us like Brands was, but there must be a list of time wasters behid the scenes that needs to be sorted, Rafael will know who they are, and how to deal with them, 2 down so far with Brands and that medic, more will be following soon for certain

 

[Jamalio Danubio DiCanio]

Not going to get into the rights and wrongs of Benitez or whether the current poor run is his fault or is due to other contributory factors (players being injured for example).

What I will say is that the players haven't stopped playing for him. Don't think he's lost the dressing room based on the effort being put in. Beyond 2 players they are aren't really his players that he's brought to the club either.

That's a good sign for the short term. Once a manager loses the dressing room they are toast. More so than losing the support of parts of the fanbase

 

[roy vernon]

At one stage in our run of losses we were missing Mina, Gomes, Richarlison, Docoure all of whom played some minutes last night.

Gomes in particular I thought was very important in the last quarter.

I do agree that we have been overrun in central midfield and that was a consistent problem which could have been addressed.

Gomes was important in so far as he was the third man in midfield. Anybody could have seen for weeks, we just can't play a two. The only people who did not see it were Benitez and his acolytes .

Gomes was good when he came on, but, the big difference was, it put another body in midfield.

 

[ClausThomsen]

Is there anyway we can return to a "reserve team" set up, apologies but I havent followed much of the u23 set up for a good while, in fact since we had a barnstormer under Unsworth a good few years back IIRC?

Dont know if a "reserve team" fits in with current Prem league set up, but back in the day the reserve team was effectively a "mirror" image of the 1st Team and as such players could just slot right in when needed, I know this is a bit "dinosaur mentality" of me in terms of getting "with the modern game" but is it even a possibility?

We have very rarely seen this U23 set up pay us true dividends, in terms of progress to the 1st Team so its just a thought? Maybe a ridiculous one! It used to be effective though.

The current U23 system is set up so you can play a limited number of over-age players but isn't strictly the same as the reserve set-up of years gone by. It can mirror the first team in tactics and set-up but the trouble is we've had so many managers coming and going with different systems of play that it's difficult to know what exactly they're supposed to be mirroring.

There is an argument that positions, and roles within that postion, are much more specialist and gameplans more complex or meticulous so that could be a further hindrance when there are constant changes in the first team. Certainly it seems to me that there are more types of defensive, midfield and attacking roles than there once was. It could be football hipsterism muddying the waters or there may well be a lot more below the surface than those of us outside the modern elite game realise or see.

The barnstormer that Unsworth had with the PL2 title was impressive in one way but there were accusations that he allegedly wasn't promoting enough U18s as he preferred winning over developing. Large pinch of salt with that as it is speculation rather than fact but if an U23 manager is concentrating on winning games and trophies rather than developing younger players then that bottleneck can develop.

It's always difficult to compare and contrast with reserve set-ups of years gone by as every PL club (and Championship) scouts pretty much the globe for players. I guess it's much harder to bring players through when a series of managers want the immediate fix and have a huge global pool to draw from.

In years gone by I doubt a Venezuelan forward in the Chinese league would be an option so as choices were limited then the reserves were more likely to be drawn from. And as players come out of the reserves you have youngsters moving up to replace them. I think global reach and huge finances are a huge contributor to not bringing players through rather than a particular system being better or worse.

 

[hallamblue]

Not going to get into the rights and wrongs of Benitez or whether the current poor run is his fault or is due to other contributory factors (players being injured for example).

What I will say is that the players haven't stopped playing for him. Don't think he's lost the dressing room based on the effort being put in. Beyond 2 players they are aren't really his players that he's brought to the club either.

That's a good sign for the short term. Once a manager loses the dressing room they are toast. More so than losing the support of parts of the fanbase

You'll probably find players like Richarlison and Allan who always give 100% effort were getting sick of others not doing so. Hopefully we can get some more in like Gray, Townsend and Godfrey who actually seem to give a damn

 

[4737carlin]

Also credit again for the continued removal of that zonal marking, he got the wrong and changed it, have to respect a manager who can do that

 

[sd_1992]

If it means going through the club like a dose of salts and sorting out each dept of the club so we’re moving away from mediocrity ,then I’m all for it!!

What has he done to show he can do this?

His career is a litany of trying to do this... failing... then getting sacked.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Gomes was important in so far as he was the third man in midfield. Anybody could have seen for weeks, we just can't play a two. The only people who did not see it were Benitez and his acolytes .

Gomes was good when he came on, but, the big difference was, it put another body in midfield.

We were VERY lucky to not be completely out of that game last night before Benitez finally caved and added a third midfielder.

Utterly baffling that he saw the performance against Liverpool with 2 in midfield and thought "yep, more of the same please"

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

I thought it was a great reaction.. it was like he was telling players to calm down with his hand gestures.. how often have we conceded not long after scoring.. calm heads needed.

We all thought Carlo was the cat's meow when he calmly sipped his tea with that insanity in the Cup

 

[Cameron Manning]

It’s got nothing to do with him being Liverpool manager. He’s just very poor for 2021

That’s in your cas, that doesn’t bother you but it bothers many Blue fans.

As for being very poor in the modern age, possibly, but he has only been here five months, inherited a very poor squad, improved it a bit with spare change to spend then seen the squad reduced of some of their best players with injury and suspensions so I’d say he deserves a bit of leeway there.

 

[BlueToff]

That’s in your cas, that doesn’t bother you but it bothers many Blue fans.

As for being very poor in the modern age, possibly, but he has only been here five months, inherited a very poor squad, improved it a bit with spare change to spend then seen the squad reduced of some of their best players with injury and suspensions so I’d say he deserves a bit of leeway there.

The squad is capable of playing better than it has done recently, even counting for injuries

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

….strange how some are euphorically judging him for a win who made excuses for all the defeats.

Credit where due, he gets stick when he loses so give him ups when he wins, but I give more credit to the players on the field.

The best thing Rafael did was to change the shape, and put in Gomes, but IMO he should have had a midfield three to begin with - if he hasn't learned by now that we need that extra body or we'll get shredded, that's pretty bad. He only gets so much credit from me for fixing a setup that was bad to begin with.

 

[Dixieslaces]

The current U23 system is set up so you can play a limited number of over-age players but isn't strictly the same as the reserve set-up of years gone by. It can mirror the first team in tactics and set-up but the trouble is we've had so many managers coming and going with different systems of play that it's difficult to know what exactly they're supposed to be mirroring.

There is an argument that positions, and roles within that postion, are much more specialist and gameplans more complex or meticulous so that could be a further hindrance when there are constant changes in the first team. Certainly it seems to me that there are more types of defensive, midfield and attacking roles than there once was. It could be football hipsterism muddying the waters or there may well be a lot more below the surface than those of us outside the modern elite game realise or see.

The barnstormer that Unsworth had with the PL2 title was impressive in one way but there were accusations that he allegedly wasn't promoting enough U18s as he preferred winning over developing. Large pinch of salt with that as it is speculation rather than fact but if an U23 manager is concentrating on winning games and trophies rather than developing younger players then that bottleneck can develop.

It's always difficult to compare and contrast with reserve set-ups of years gone by as every PL club (and Championship) scouts pretty much the globe for players. I guess it's much harder to bring players through when a series of managers want the immediate fix and have a huge global pool to draw from.

In years gone by I doubt a Venezuelan forward in the Chinese league would be an option so as choices were limited then the reserves were more likely to be drawn from. And as players come out of the reserves you have youngsters moving up to replace them. I think global reach and huge finances are a huge contributor to not bringing players through rather than a particular system being better or worse.

Thank you, appreciate the response and detail.

the first point is a really good point, hard to match a philosophy, style when we chop and change managers.

Yes, role variation seems much more the modern ethos and actually does make sense, i remember the days of "total football" of the Dutch and at the time marvelling at it as it was so "complete" every player was capable to varying degrees admittedly of filling each position depending on what from of attack/defence was occurring in a game, probably a simplistic overview of it but we have seen perhaps a morphing of that?

I would totally agree that the desire to Win and perhaps prove "himself" was a driver perhaps at the sacrifice of development.

*it has in real terms been some time since the reserve team model has been used and i would often go to watch them back in the late 70's early 80's!

thanks for taking the time!

 

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

The best thing Rafael did was to change the shape, and put in Gomes, but IMO he should have had a midfield three to begin with - if he hasn't learned by now that we need that extra body or we'll get shredded, that's pretty bad. He only gets so much credit from me for fixing a setup that was bad to begin with.

We're all saying the same thing, aren't we.