2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[Lob]

There are very posters here who would be giving benitez such stick if results were better. A few would yes . But if we were in 5th or 6th playing good football and winning games he would be tolerated. But we aren't. And so most of the criticism is warranted . It was a divisive appointment and a lot of people now want him gone . Some never wanted him and some will defend him regardless. But as we head into a new year its safe to say that the interest in the club is probably at an all time low .

Indeed mate. Don't think i have ever been as apathetic about Everton as i am now and the only way that will change is if they give me a reason to be enthusiastic and optimistic again. I don't see any signs of that currently regardless of the up and coming transfer window. My apathy is towards the running of the entire club, not just the players and Manager.

 

[davek]

Explain that point please Dave.

You are one of the only people I have seen on here willing an Everton defeat and it’s something I can’t understand at all.

I also don’t get how such a perceived sentiment would translate to the performance of the team? Surely the players are coached to ignore everything off field and just do their job?

The team knew many of the fans were not concerned if Benitez left or not. That has to have an impact on how you prepare for and approach a game. This lot are NOT professionals and they take every opportunity to down tools...and that night offered them a golden opportunity to do it with minimum blowback for themselves.

BTW, I am unrepentant on 'donating' useless points* to us to making sure Liverpool dont repeat their freak title win of a couple of years ago. If it came about this season that Liverpool won the title from City by a point - not just me would be ruing any win or draw we could get against City at Goodison.

We had that scenario in 2013/14 and there were more blues than not who didn't want to take points off City that day. That's just logical.



* and they are usless as they wont hand us CL football.

 

[COYBL25]

They didn’t hammer us. The half time consensus was they had bettered the first 20 minutes, then we had the better of the last 20. This was against a full strength Liverpool whilst we had players missing. Most people saw the game as poised at halftime. Individual errors cost us in the second half. That’s not a battering in my book just because the score line got away from us as we practically kicked 2 in our own net.

There’s no scenario we win that derby game playing like we did under Allardyce. Playing like we did under Benitez, if executed better, and with less mistakes gives us a chance in the future. Even at 2 down we were taking the ball in midfield and playing through the lines (which led to the goal). That is something few Everton teams have tried to do to them. We did it once under Martinez, we did it once under Silva, we did it a couple of times under Moyes (when we were ahead). But most performances, like you say, even from the worst teams we’ve had have been a back to the wall defensive job hoping to nick a goal by a set piece.

Pickford had one of his games of the season.

Add to that, the fact they missed a hatful.

8- 1 wouldn’t have flattered them.

We got battered.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The team knew many of the fans were not concerned if Benitez left or not. That has to have an impact on how you prepare for and approach a game. This lot are NOT professionals and they take every opportunity to down tools...and that night offered them a golden opportunity to do it with minimum blowback for themselves.

BTW, I am unrepentant on 'donating' useless points to us to making sure Liverpool dont repeat their freak title win of a couple of years ago. If it came about this season that Liverpool won the title from City by a point - not just me would be ruing any win or draw we could get against City at Goodison.

We had that scenario in 2013/14 and there were more blues than not who didn't want to take points off City that day. That's just logical.

Aren’t you arguing against yourself here Dave?

They aren’t professionals because they down tools if they selfishly feel like it but yet you would also not have them do their job for another personal short sighted reason.

Doesn’t that make you the same as the players in that you choose when to try to win?

And in both cases, the manager appears to be an irrelevance.

Genuinely confused.

 

[NeroCeasar]

Apart from all those games we fell behind in and then took the game to the opposition to get the win or draw level? Southampton Burnley Brighton Arsenal Chelsea, but yeah apart from them lot.

Southampton 48%
Burnley 52%
Brighton 34%
Arsenal 36%
Chelsea 20%

They are the games you mentioned above where "we took the game to the opposition to get the win or draw". A few more for interest

Leeds (A) 30%
Utd (A) 28%
City (A) 23%
Liverpool 31%

Only the 52 against Burnley listed above and the 60% away at Brentford are the only games we have had more then 50% possession, its completely unsustainable. We are 2nd bottom for average possession over the season, only Newcastle have worse.

Bottom 6 are
Newcastle
Everton
Burnley
Watford
Villa
Norwich

So you have the bottom 4, ourselves and Villa. 5 of the bottom 6, the cause and effect can be seen, you cannot survive in this league trying to play without the ball

Didn’t Leicester City win the league with something like 34% possession... never paid to much attention to those sort of stats myself.. better to use my eyes.. yeah football under Benitez has not been great but mitigating circumstances for that.. will be watching him closely when he has a full team and has made his own signings tho...

42.4% possession.

 

[catcherintherye]

Are you being serious about Spurs... they have only won two more trophies since the blues last trophy but they have never finished lower than 8th in about twelve years... they usually get to latter stages of cup competitions and they are based in London where they will always get maximum exposure and publicity.. they also have the most modern football stadium in the world and second biggest in uk..
I am not going to have a go at what Everton have done but even the most loyal Evertonian will admit the Club has drifted aimlessly since it last won the League title.. even the last trophy in 1995 was a shock given how good United were at the time and they have never really been close ever since apart from the Cup final defeat against Chelsea and a semi final loss to the reds...
The point I am trying to make is loyalty makes fans blind to where there Clubs actually are.. Red fans still think they are first or second biggest club in the country when everyone knows Chelsea and City have now over took them.. Everton fans still think it’s a big club because of Kendall..Harvey and Ball or the Championship winning teams of the mid 80s.. them days have sadly gone and new clubs have replaced them.. when I grew up Nottingham Forest were one of the main clubs which says it all.. look at them now.. like I say you have to feed the modern fanbase with trophies.. success and glory and for that reason Everton have sadly starved there fanbase last 20 years or so and it’s took its toll.. it’s just how football works. If it never all clubs would remain in the same position and Preston North End would be near the top

Yes I'm serious. When have Spurs won a trophy of the stature of either the league or FA Cup? Genuine question, as I can't remember them doing it in my lifetime. Is your argument because Spurs finished 8th and above they are bigger than a club with 9 league titles? If so it seems very odd logic to me.

I'm still at a loss of why you think I don't deserve a manager like Benitez too. I haven't said anything offensive towards him. Who made you God on what supporters do or don't deserve? Why is asking him to match the previous points total mean I am not worthy of a manager who earns millions of quid a year, partially funded by my ticket money? Hopefully you can see this (alongside the nonsense about Spurs being bigger than Everton because they finished 8th) is complete nonsense.

As a final aside, if we have "drifted aimlessly" and still won a major trophy since our last league win, I'd love to know how Spurs who haven't won a single trophy at that level can be described as a big club. There's no rationality in that logic.

 

[davek]

Aren’t you arguing against yourself here Dave?

They aren’t professionals because they down tools if they selfishly feel like it but yet you would also not have them do their job for another personal short sighted reason.

Doesn’t that make you the same as the players in that you choose when to try to win?

And in both cases, the manager appears to be an irrelevance.

Genuinely confused.

Believe it or not, the players dont listen to me. My wish has nothing to do with their lack of professionalism.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Believe it or not, the players dont listen to me. My wish has nothing to do with their lack of professionalism.

But you just said that perceived fan sentiment influenced the performance in the Derby?

Surely proper pros would be going for a win every game no matter what.

To not want them to win a game is the same as what you criticise them for being my point.

 

[BigDuncTributeBand]

I see this utter tool in his press conference using Graham Potter’s 3 year stay at Brighton to try to weasel himself “time”.

No. Potter took over from a manager who played negative, defensive, cowardly reactionary football who told the fans that was the only way Brighton could get results. He came in and with much the same players implemented a much better style of football. He got time because fans could see there was some vision and plan to buy into.

Meanwhile we’ve got this dinosaur whose ambition is to get us playing like a bottom half of the league Newcastle United. While telling everyone that this is the way we will get results and we should be grateful for it. Nobody wants to watch it chum, it’s no vision to aspire to so no, you don’t get “time” just because potter did.

Oh for an ounce of ambition and long term vision from the board.

 

[davek]

But you just said that perceived fan sentiment influenced the performance in the Derby?

Surely proper pros would be going for a win every game no matter what.

To not want them to win a game is the same as what you criticise them for being my point.

Yeah, as a collective feeling.

Not hard to understand one fan having nil effect on player attitude but thousands having some effect.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

I see this utter tool in his press conference using Graham Potter’s 3 year stay at Brighton to try to weasel himself “time”.

No. Potter took over from a manager who played negative, defensive, cowardly reactionary football who told the fans that was the only way Brighton could get results. He came in and with much the same players implemented a much better style of football. He got time because fans could see there was some vision and plan to buy into.

Meanwhile we’ve got this dinosaur whose ambition is to get us playing like a bottom half of the league Newcastle United. While telling everyone that this is the way we will get results and we should be grateful for it. Nobody wants to watch it chum, it’s no vision to aspire to so no, you don’t get “time” just because potter did.

Oh for an ounce of ambition and long term vision from the board.

If Potterball was here and finished the season in 16th he would have been legged by our fans.

 

[MikeH72]

They didn’t hammer us. The half time consensus was they had bettered the first 20 minutes, then we had the better of the last 20. This was against a full strength Liverpool whilst we had players missing. Most people saw the game as poised at halftime. Individual errors cost us in the second half. That’s not a battering in my book just because the score line got away from us as we practically kicked 2 in our own net.

There’s no scenario we win that derby game playing like we did under Allardyce. Playing like we did under Benitez, if executed better, and with less mistakes gives us a chance in the future. Even at 2 down we were taking the ball in midfield and playing through the lines (which led to the goal). That is something few Everton teams have tried to do to them. We did it once under Martinez, we did it once under Silva, we did it a couple of times under Moyes (when we were ahead). But most performances, like you say, even from the worst teams we’ve had have been a back to the wall defensive job hoping to nick a goal by a set piece.

They didn’t just “better” the first 20 minutes, we should’ve been 4-0 down after 10 minutes. It was one of the most embarrassing and cowardly performances I’ve ever seen for the majority of that first half. Then the last half an hour of the game was a training session for them, we were never in the game at any point. If we’d equalised we’d still have lost comfortably.

 

[MikeH72]

Southampton 48%
Burnley 52%
Brighton 34%
Arsenal 36%
Chelsea 20%

They are the games you mentioned above where "we took the game to the opposition to get the win or draw". A few more for interest

Leeds (A) 30%
Utd (A) 28%
City (A) 23%
Liverpool 31%

Only the 52 against Burnley listed above and the 60% away at Brentford are the only games we have had more then 50% possession, its completely unsustainable. We are 2nd bottom for average possession over the season, only Newcastle have worse.

Bottom 6 are
Newcastle
Everton
Burnley
Watford
Villa
Norwich

So you have the bottom 4, ourselves and Villa. 5 of the bottom 6, the cause and effect can be seen, you cannot survive in this league trying to play without the ball

42.4% possession.

It’s fine to give up possession and be a counter attacking team if you can actually defend. If you can’t defend then you’re just inviting the opposition to score every single game. That’s us.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Yeah, as a collective feeling.

Not hard to understand one fan having nil effect on player attitude but thousands having some effect.

So you are a lone Wolf howling at the moon then Dave ?

I do get your point about a necessary evil but feel you are confusing pre Derby resignment and hope for the future with ambivalence to another bumming defeat from that shower.

 

[tommytowne]

I see this utter tool in his press conference using Graham Potter’s 3 year stay at Brighton to try to weasel himself “time”.

No. Potter took over from a manager who played negative, defensive, cowardly reactionary football who told the fans that was the only way Brighton could get results. He came in and with much the same players implemented a much better style of football. He got time because fans could see there was some vision and plan to buy into.

Meanwhile we’ve got this dinosaur whose ambition is to get us playing like a bottom half of the league Newcastle United. While telling everyone that this is the way we will get results and we should be grateful for it. Nobody wants to watch it chum, it’s no vision to aspire to so no, you don’t get “time” just because potter did.

Oh for an ounce of ambition and long term vision from the board.

Listen to Potter's after match comments about us after we'd beat them at the beginning of the season. If that wasn't a "come and get me plea" I don't know what.
He's inching up to the top of replacement coaches when Benitez goes.