2021/22 Rafael Benitez

[Collyman]

HE bought Townsend & Gray to the Club, whilst Brands sits on his hands & does nothing, earning a big wage whilst Benitez has to try & perform miracles with all the cud left over that got us midtable under previous managers. To blame Benitez for our predicament, with the injuries we’ve had, is pure folly & smacks of agenda driven balls.

 

[ToffeeTim]

All I want to hear from the Benitez fan club is an example of such a divisive appointment being a success. Where has a manager be so universally unpopular yet made significant improvements to a team which was previously so divided?

And also, why are you so confident that Benitez is the right man and can succeed despite the division at the club?

These are the reasons I do not support this manager but I am happy to debate on these points. The give it time for times sake argument is not an actual argument. I genuinely want to hear opinions why people think hes the right choice.

These are the important questions and no one who supports the manager has answers for them.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

We've won 1 of our last 6 games in all comps.

Villa (A) - 0-3
QPR (A) - 2-2 (lost on pens)
Norwich (H) - 2-0
Man Utd (A) - 1-1
West Ham (H) - 0-1
Watford (H) - 2-5

Any manager would, and should, be fair game for criticism after such a run.

Yeah but £1.7m laa.

 

[woodsyni]

You’re right it’s not just under Benitez - when the going gets tough, this lot wilt, over and over and over again. We’ve seen it too much over the last five years.

What really gets me, being brought up watching the toffees from start of the 90’s is just how easy this team is to play through and overrun. I’ve never, in my lifetime, seen us have a midfield that absolutely bossed possession and controlled games every week. At the very least they were always difficult to play against and organised.

Think of the money we’ve spent on midfielders over the last five years, the only one I’d definitely keep is Doucourre. They get outworked, played through and around to easily, don’t track runners etc. When games get stretched the positional play is all over the place, there’s no leaders in there, you could drive a bus through the middle of midfield. Schneiderlin is the poster boy for the midfield of the last 5/6 years.

People go on about the defence a lot and they’re probably not good enough either but I think the root cause of our capitulations of recent years is the midfield.

I agree with every word of this!

 

[BlueToff]

These are the important questions and no one who supports the manager has answers for them.

They just shout it down that it was because he managed Liverpool. For some, I admit, that is the main issue. For others, like me, and yourself, it's just because we don't think he's very good.

I actually think as a coach, he seems extremely attentive to detail (which is what baffles me about his set-piece set up), and wants improvements in fitness, discipline etc and has done an okay job of turning us into a team that can spring on the break, injuries or not.

My issue with him as a manager is he is so stubborn that he does not seem to be seeing or willing to fix the clear faults to his play. I keep banging on about it but to have averaged the 18th-most possession in the league, given the quality of the teams we've faced in the first nine games, is dreadful. Whether you want to be a counter-attacking side or not, you need to be able to control spells of matches with or without the ball. Very few teams control a whole match but you need to be able to control 3-4 spells per game. Not just one or zero.

I don't think, based on his record in the last five years, he was the right manager for us. I do think he probably has the right attitude on the training pitch, though.

The issue is that the Liverpool thing would rear its head when things turned sour. It may not be my main reason to not take to him, but for some people it is. There's not much we can do about that.

I would rather see him given time, and he will be given time because we can't afford another manager to go, but the people who are dead set on absolving him of blame must be on the wind up. He is to blame for how the team play and just like he must be credited for good performances he has to be responsible for the bad. You can't lose 5-2 at home to Watford, no matter what the injury situation is, and come away with any credit.

The issues have been persistent all season. We have never looked well organised at the back, Brighton game and the 2nd half v United aside and he is playing an out-dated system that was shown up for what it is as soon as Doucoure was out of the team.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

Sorry just catching up.
Has anymore found out why he left Rondon on and then brought Iwobl on just for spite?

 

[ToffeeTim]

They just shout it down that it was because he managed Liverpool. For some, I admit, that is the main issue. For others, like me, and yourself, it's just because we don't think he's very good.

I actually think as a coach, he seems extremely attentive to detail (which is what baffles me about his set-piece set up), and wants improvements in fitness, discipline etc and has done an okay job of turning us into a team that can spring on the break, injuries or not.

My issue with him as a manager is he is so stubborn that he does not seem to be seeing or willing to fix the clear faults to his play. I keep banging on about it but to have averaged the 18th-most possession in the league, given the quality of the teams we've faced in the first nine games, is dreadful. Whether you want to be a counter-attacking side or not, you need to be able to control spells of matches with or without the ball. Very few teams control a whole match but you need to be able to control 3-4 spells per game. Not just one or zero.

I don't think, based on his record in the last five years, he was the right manager for us. I do think he probably has the right attitude on the training pitch, though.

The issue is that the Liverpool thing would rear its head when things turned sour. It may not be my main reason to not take to him, but for some people it is. There's not much we can do about that.

I would rather see him given time, and he will be given time because we can't afford another manager to go, but the people who are dead set on absolving him of blame must be on the wind up. He is to blame for how the team play and just like he must be credited for good performances he has to be responsible for the bad. You can't lose 5-2 at home to Watford, no matter what the injury situation is, and come away with any credit.

The issues have been persistent all season. We have never looked well organised at the back, Brighton game and the 2nd half v United aside and he is playing an out-dated system that was shown up for what it is as soon as Doucoure was out of the team.

It's both issues for me to be honest. I'm not denying that. It's not that he managed the reds - that's irrelevant, because so did Rodgers and he would be a great appointment. It's the fact that Benitez's past and his stubborness makes him such an unpopular and divisive appointment, which means he cannot be a long term option. There is an inevitability about how this all ends and even the Benitez fans know this deep down. We've all seen how Everton works.

No manager in history has succeeded in an environment like this. No club this divided has ever suddenly improved. I think it's impossible for the club to improve while there is so much division amongst ourselves. I've asked repeatedly for an example like this where things have turned around, but no one can give me one. If there is no evidence that something can work then I will never accept it or support it.

 

[Marius57]

HE bought Townsend & Gray to the Club, whilst Brands sits on his hands & does nothing, earning a big wage whilst Benitez has to try & perform miracles with all the cud left over that got us midtable under previous managers. To blame Benitez for our predicament, with the injuries we’ve had, is pure folly & smacks of agenda driven balls.

He also brought begovic who has conceded 20 goals in like 3 games and rondon who is possibly the worst player I've ever seen in an Everton shirt.

 

[Rob17896]

HE bought Townsend & Gray to the Club, whilst Brands sits on his hands & does nothing, earning a big wage whilst Benitez has to try & perform miracles with all the cud left over that got us midtable under previous managers. To blame Benitez for our predicament, with the injuries we’ve had, is pure folly & smacks of agenda driven balls.

It is!

 

[Tubey]

They just shout it down that it was because he managed Liverpool. For some, I admit, that is the main issue. For others, like me, and yourself, it's just because we don't think he's very good.

I actually think as a coach, he seems extremely attentive to detail (which is what baffles me about his set-piece set up), and wants improvements in fitness, discipline etc and has done an okay job of turning us into a team that can spring on the break, injuries or not.

My issue with him as a manager is he is so stubborn that he does not seem to be seeing or willing to fix the clear faults to his play. I keep banging on about it but to have averaged the 18th-most possession in the league, given the quality of the teams we've faced in the first nine games, is dreadful. Whether you want to be a counter-attacking side or not, you need to be able to control spells of matches with or without the ball. Very few teams control a whole match but you need to be able to control 3-4 spells per game. Not just one or zero.

I don't think, based on his record in the last five years, he was the right manager for us. I do think he probably has the right attitude on the training pitch, though.

The issue is that the Liverpool thing would rear its head when things turned sour. It may not be my main reason to not take to him, but for some people it is. There's not much we can do about that.

I would rather see him given time, and he will be given time because we can't afford another manager to go, but the people who are dead set on absolving him of blame must be on the wind up. He is to blame for how the team play and just like he must be credited for good performances he has to be responsible for the bad. You can't lose 5-2 at home to Watford, no matter what the injury situation is, and come away with any credit.

The issues have been persistent all season. We have never looked well organised at the back, Brighton game and the 2nd half v United aside and he is playing an out-dated system that was shown up for what it is as soon as Doucoure was out of the team.

And what other manager is getting better out of these bunch of tossers?

You talk about possession, but we're not going to be playing tiki taka with Allan and Tom Davies.

It's a dreadful squad. The balance and depth is just horrifying - there's nothing to it. Nobody could do anything more with it. So to bash Benitez for having basically nothing at his disposal and when no other manager could do anything different is, again, agenda driven nonsense.

 

[Rob17896]

It's both issues for me to be honest. I'm not denying that. It's not that he managed the reds - that's irrelevant, because so did Rodgers and he would be a great appointment. It's the fact that Benitez's past and his stubborness makes him such an unpopular and divisive appointment, which means he cannot be a long term option. There is an inevitability about how this all ends and even the Benitez fans know this deep down. We've all seen how Everton works.

No manager in history has succeeded in an environment like this. No club this divided has ever suddenly improved. I think it's impossible for the club to improve while there is so much division amongst ourselves. I've asked repeatedly for an example like this where things have turned around, but no one can give me one. If there is no evidence that something can work then I will never accept it or support it.

Just before HK did wonders, the discontent and the awful gates smacked of relegation. It changed. The one thing you can guarantee in life is change. Benitez needs a bit of time to get rid of the dross and we will be fine.

 

[BigDuncTributeBand]

They just shout it down that it was because he managed Liverpool. For some, I admit, that is the main issue. For others, like me, and yourself, it's just because we don't think he's very good.

I actually think as a coach, he seems extremely attentive to detail (which is what baffles me about his set-piece set up), and wants improvements in fitness, discipline etc and has done an okay job of turning us into a team that can spring on the break, injuries or not.

My issue with him as a manager is he is so stubborn that he does not seem to be seeing or willing to fix the clear faults to his play. I keep banging on about it but to have averaged the 18th-most possession in the league, given the quality of the teams we've faced in the first nine games, is dreadful. Whether you want to be a counter-attacking side or not, you need to be able to control spells of matches with or without the ball. Very few teams control a whole match but you need to be able to control 3-4 spells per game. Not just one or zero.

I don't think, based on his record in the last five years, he was the right manager for us. I do think he probably has the right attitude on the training pitch, though.

The issue is that the Liverpool thing would rear its head when things turned sour. It may not be my main reason to not take to him, but for some people it is. There's not much we can do about that.

I would rather see him given time, and he will be given time because we can't afford another manager to go, but the people who are dead set on absolving him of blame must be on the wind up. He is to blame for how the team play and just like he must be credited for good performances he has to be responsible for the bad. You can't lose 5-2 at home to Watford, no matter what the injury situation is, and come away with any credit.

The issues have been persistent all season. We have never looked well organised at the back, Brighton game and the 2nd half v United aside and he is playing an out-dated system that was shown up for what it is as soon as Doucoure was out of the team.

Think that’s a very fair post, probably where I am.

 

[MisterJ]

It's both issues for me to be honest. I'm not denying that. It's not that he managed the reds - that's irrelevant, because so did Rodgers and he would be a great appointment. It's the fact that Benitez's past and his stubborness makes him such an unpopular and divisive appointment, which means he cannot be a long term option. There is an inevitability about how this all ends and even the Benitez fans know this deep down. We've all seen how Everton works.

No manager in history has succeeded in an environment like this. No club this divided has ever suddenly improved. I think it's impossible for the club to improve while there is so much division amongst ourselves. I've asked repeatedly for an example like this where things have turned around, but no one can give me one. If there is no evidence that something can work then I will never accept it or support it.

Is the club divided though?

The club appointed the manager and will back him.

Elements of the fanbase may be divided but do you really think the board, owner, manager or club as a whole care overly about that?

Goodison is full every week, as will the new stadium once open; merchandise is selling so at what point does anyone at the club care if some in the fanbase are upset that the manager once managed Liverpool.

By all means moan about performances; but we know the team is poor/inconsistent in need of a lot of work which we can't do due to recruitment failures over the last 5 years. Short term yes, Rafael takes the blame for recent results; but long term he's just come in at the end of seasons of rubbish from the top to bottom of the club.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Just before HK did wonders, the discontent and the awful gates smacked of relegation. It changed. The one thing you can guarantee in life is change. Benitez needs a bit of time to get rid of the dross and we will be fine.

HK is well before my time, but he was a tremendous player for the club. There is no way his appointment caused this sort of division and ill feeling.

I just don't see how the facts are similar with Benitez. And football is a lot different now than 35 years ago. It's almost a different sport.

 

[woodsyni]

Just before HK did wonders, the discontent and the awful gates smacked of relegation. It changed. The one thing you can guarantee in life is change. Benitez needs a bit of time to get rid of the dross and we will be fine.

We need a proper 'sea change'. Root and branch. Something that will fundamentally change the club or we are only going one way. This squad needs to be dismantled and rebuilt. We need leaders and fight otherwise it doesn't matter who the manager is. I hoped Benitez's ruthlessness and arrogance would help achieve that. If nothing changes in January, then it's another multi-million payoff and we're still in the same position with the same 'couldn't-give-a-toss' squad. Revolving door whilst not addressing the problem.