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"Review the manager in December..."

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GrandOldTeam

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Back in February, I created this thread: Martinez: The Reality

Context wise, it was created after a late own goal salvaged a draw with Leicester at Goodison. The BBC's match report linked labelled us as draw specialists - with merit, it was our 5th draw on the spin, our 7th draw in 13 home games, winning just 3. It all meant we had just 28 points from 26 games.

My view was although the season was grim, a complete write off - Martinez would change it around.

And so, I suggested that we all would be wise to give Martinez time;

He'll start a new season, having learnt more about Everton this season than ever before. He'll start that season (provided we don't win the Europa...) without any European commitments.

Review the manager in December...

Until then, do we really need to entertain the tedious, premature sacking the manager debate?...

It's December. What's changed?

Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity I thought I'd have to sit here smugly and say "I told you so..." because, not much has changed. We're still draw specialists, we're still massively frustrating, we're still looking at our team on paper and thinking we're boss but then flattering to deceive.

This team is two years on, two years more mature from the team that finished 5th with out highest ever Premier League points total but it's a fair shout to say that we've not kicked on as we'd hoped, or expected - if anything we've regressed.

The consensus is that this is the best Everton squad for many a years - yet our last 57 games (38 last season+19 so far this season) has seen W18, D19, L20. That's a win rate of just 31%. Managers at lesser clubs have been sacked with a better record, rightly or wrongly, that's the game and so, talk of Martinez' position isn't to be so readily brushed off.

Our football is sexier to last season and notably we're passing with greater intent - Lukaku is benefiting from having some quality in the final third in Deulofeu and a confident Barkley - but, the actual output is comparative to last season. Domestically, we're marginally better vs same point last season - we're 5 points better off, and 1 place higher. It's disappointing. We all know it, only this week have we had senior players like Barry, and key players like Lukaku talking up a disappointing campaign. We've scored 6 more vs last season, and amazingly, conceded 3 less. We're also still in a domestic cup, an improvement on being dumped out the first time of asking last season. An improvement, but an overall performance that is underwhelming and ultimately, not good enough.

Through GrandOldTeam, I'm well positioned to gauge fan sentiment and sentiment towards Martinez, is at least in my opinion, at an all time low. My opinion is reaffirmed by some actual professional sentiment analysis but that's for the end of the season...

Despite the increasing focus on the manager, I'm convinced that clubs like Everton get nowhere chopping and changing managers and whether fans like it or not, Roberto Martinez will remain Everton's manager for many years to come - unless he wants off himself, or there's a change of board to one which genuinely aspires to the clubs motto with greater expectations.

The Everton manager, under Everton's existing regime benefits from, and enjoys having arguably the safest football job in England. Of course, there's benefit to that in stability, but the negative is football purgatory. We just exist as a football club...

Ask yourself this...
  • What would prompt Everton's existing board to sack an Everton manager?
That for me, is the crux of it.

What is the minimum expectation of the Everton manager?

Personally, I'm convinced that as long as our league status is assured, and season tickets keep coming in - an Everton manager who doesn't rock the boat will keep his job.

I'm still on the fence, though growing increasingly concerned that our misplaced loyalty to a manager with just one good domestic top flight season to his name could backfire and we lose an opportunity to achieve something with our best squad in a long time. I'd say if we finish below 8th at the end of the season, I'd say twist and look elsewhere.

Until then, I'm hopeful a couple of positive results could see us really kick on. Everton have failed to win consecutive league games for eight months. When that happens, and we find that consistency, we could really fly...

Keep the faith Blues. Two domestic cups are up for grabs and we're only 9 points from 4th... 5 from 5th.
 
On the assumption that the current board are serious about selling up then :-

A real threat of relegation, which would take a hammer to the club's valuation, and the current board would sack him. Season ticket and ticket sales in general seem unlikely to be an issue. Only relegation, or the threat of it, would bring about a change in manager at the moment.
 
Nothing's really changed. We play better football but we finished last season in 11th and now halfway through this season we are 11th again. I expected improvement this season, I thought it was fair to give him until Christmas to turn it around and unfortunately he hasn't so I think he should be sacked.
 

I think the current owners would sack him if relegation became a real possibility. Which is disgraceful because he took over a team that finished 6th, 14 points ahead of 8th placed West Brom. To be safe in his job, provided he doesn't take us back to the dark days of the early 2000s is pathetic.

I think the club will be sold before the end of the season. I think new owners will judge him more harshly. As I said in a previous thread, if we get new ownership I doubt Martinez will be Everton manager in August.
 
"One good domestic top flight season to his name".

Do you mean one out of two with us? Or in his career, because every year with wigan was a success to keep them in the league and when they finally went down he won the cup.

I just find all this "Martinez bashing" literally insane. He needs time to build his squad, it doesnt happen overnight and hes doing a really good job of it so far.

Back in February, I created this thread: Martinez: The Reality

Context wise, it was created after a late own goal salvaged a draw with Leicester at Goodison. The BBC's match report linked labelled us as draw specialists - with merit, it was our 5th draw on the spin, our 7th draw in 13 home games, winning just 3. It all meant we had just 28 points from 26 games.

My view was although the season was grim, a complete write off - Martinez would change it around.

And so, I suggested that we all would be wise to give Martinez time;



It's December. What's changed?

Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity I thought I'd have to sit here smugly and say "I told you so..." because, not much has changed. We're still draw specialists, we're still massively frustrating, we're still looking at our team on paper and thinking we're boss but then flattering to deceive.

This team is two years on, two years more mature from the team that finished 5th with out highest ever Premier League points total but it's a fair shout to say that we've not kicked on as we'd hoped, or expected - if anything we've regressed.

The consensus is that this is the best Everton squad for many a years - yet our last 57 games (38 last season+19 so far this season) has seen W18, D19, L20. That's a win rate of just 31%. Managers at lesser clubs have been sacked with a better record, rightly or wrongly, that's the game and so, talk of Martinez' position isn't to be so readily brushed off.

Our football is sexier to last season and notably we're passing with greater intent - Lukaku is benefiting from having some quality in the final third in Deulofeu and a confident Barkley - but, the actual output is comparative to last season. Domestically, we're marginally better vs same point last season - we're 5 points better off, and 1 place higher. It's disappointing. We all know it, only this week have we had senior players like Barry, and key players like Lukaku talking up a disappointing campaign. We've scored 6 more vs last season, and amazingly, conceded 3 less. We're also still in a domestic cup, an improvement on being dumped out the first time of asking last season. An improvement, but an overall performance that is underwhelming and ultimately, not good enough.

Through GrandOldTeam, I'm well positioned to gauge fan sentiment and sentiment towards Martinez, is at least in my opinion, at an all time low. My opinion is reaffirmed by some actual professional sentiment analysis but that's for the end of the season...

Despite the increasing focus on the manager, I'm convinced that clubs like Everton get nowhere chopping and changing managers and whether fans like it or not, Roberto Martinez will remain Everton's manager for many years to come - unless he wants off himself, or there's a change of board to one which genuinely aspires to the clubs motto with greater expectations.

The Everton manager, under Everton's existing regime benefits from, and enjoys having arguably the safest football job in England. Of course, there's benefit to that in stability, but the negative is football purgatory. We just exist as a football club...

Ask yourself this...
  • What would prompt Everton's existing board to sack an Everton manager?
That for me, is the crux of it.

What is the minimum expectation of the Everton manager?

Personally, I'm convinced that as long as our league status is assured, and season tickets keep coming in - an Everton manager who doesn't rock the boat will keep his job.

I'm still on the fence, though growing increasingly concerned that our misplaced loyalty to a manager with just one good domestic top flight season to his name could backfire and we lose an opportunity to achieve something with our best squad in a long time. I'd say if we finish below 8th at the end of the season, I'd say twist and look elsewhere.

Until then, I'm hopeful a couple of positive results could see us really kick on. Everton have failed to win consecutive league games for eight months. When that happens, and we find that consistency, we could really fly...

Keep the faith Blues. Two domestic cups are up for grabs and we're only 9 points from 4th... 5 from 5th.
 

"One good domestic top flight season to his name".

Do you mean one out of two with us? Or in his career, because every year with wigan was a success to keep them in the league and when they finally went down he won the cup.

I just find all this "Martinez bashing" literally insane. He needs time to build his squad, it doesnt happen overnight and hes doing a really good job of it so far.
Did Wigan not finish 11th the season before he got there with Bruce? And then they finished 16th for a few years before making the drop?
 
We're too easy to play against. Teams KNOW they will get chances hence we don't keep clean sheets and beat only teams whose defence is worse than ours. That's unforgivable with the squad he has available to him. If there's any better managers out there available go for it otherwise I like him enough to try to rectify it in the second half of the season. If he can't he needs to go because he'll destroy the young core he created.
 
He's safe as long as relegation isn't in the mix under this regime, as they have no ambition for the club. As already stated, new owners will want more from their manager. I'm more concerned about losing a few of our ambitious young players, which will surely happen if we fail to turn things around asap. I read every word by the way.
 

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