Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[PhilM]

Yep. Would prove that polls on an internet forum mean nothing.

The thread holds no weight in the corridors of power in Goodison and yes it isn't an ideal poll because it offers no middle ground (black and white).

Nor is it infallible to knee-jerk votes from fans as you mention. However, that's what part of being a fan is: emotion mixed with rational thought.

That's what we love about football... Everyone has their own opinion and they're welcome to air them regardless of how ludicrous they may be.

Yet on another note, while it will individually make very little to no difference it is a sample of the opinions current fans hold about Martinez.

67% of fans saying they want Martinez out is quite a high number - thus it shouldn't be simply disregarded as emotional nonsense.

Personally, I think if you spoke to a hundred fans coming out of Goodison after a match then you'd find a similar number would say the same.

 

[davek]

A real one, even though we were safe with 5 games to go with a pants squad? Ok alright then

No, sorry. Safe with two games to go that season. Everton were on 39 points after 35 games, Leeds in third bottom were on 32 points.

As said "a real relegation" threatened season.

 

[ilikecheese]

Personally, I think if you spoke to a hundred fans coming out of Goodison after a match then you'd find a similar number would say the same.

You think I would have after the Chelsea match?

 

[davek]

We were the 4th best team in the league that year. We were the 5th best team in the league in Martinez's first season. Those are the facts.

They are indeed facts. Another fact is that 72 points is 7 points better than 65 points. That's the gap between second highest PL points total for this club and record PL points total.

 

[Saint Domingo]

They are indeed facts. Another fact is that 72 points is 7 points better than 65 points. That's the gap between second highest PL points total for this club and record PL points total.

In your own words 5th is utterly useless. 4th isn't. Fact.

 

[MikeH72]

They are indeed facts. Another fact is that 72 points is 7 points better than 65 points. That's the gap between second highest PL points total for this club and record PL points total.

Another fact is that our squad in 13/14 was light years better and more expensive than our 04/05 squad

 

[PhilM]

You think I would have after the Chelsea match?

I admit that's one example where the vote may have been less, but that's an even more sensitive and emotional response than on here.

What about Arsenal at home? West Ham? Swansea? West Brom? If you took a sample from each and averaged them out, I'd say it would be close.

And to be genuinely honest, I was ecstatic after Chelsea but it didn't dowse my overall doubts of Martinez and whether he's the man for us.

Pushed them back for a while of course, but they were there. I'd suspect a lot of fans (or at least the more mature ones) would feel the same.

I've even openly said before, that if Martinez would the FA Cup I would be over joyed as silverware is something that I have desired for a long time.

Would it change my mind that he's the man for Everton in the long term though? No. One game doesn't nullify the rest of them...

 

[davek]

@davek, the reason for bringing this quote to your attention is that 12 months ago you conceded "there won't be any hiding place for him" if he did exactly what he has done throughout this season.
However consistently in this thread you have called everyone who brought Martinez under the very scrutiny you yourself anticipated if he performed as he has.
If it was acceptable 12 months ago to expect scrutiny and criticism based on performance criteria not met, what has changed to make it (and the consequences, ie the calling for a change of manager) unacceptable now?

The implication of your quote was clear, yet 12 months on your stance has changed and you berate those that hold the view you expressed.

I know you are a dedicated blue and usually very consistent in your stance. What's changed here?

The part in bold is you smuggling in a consequence that was never implied. You smuggle it in as it's the only way to get your 'smoking gun' vaulting exercise to work, so I dont blame you in the least for trying to insert it.

I stated a year ago there would be no hiding place - and that's where we are: the manager facing a full scale forum based lynching.

So, as you can see, the consistency is still intact. If there's a posting of mine you wish to provide where I've stated he should be dismissed I'd be happy to deal with it.

 

[nsno-chris]

Run up 61 points in a season other than that one and see how many CL spots it would have got...I'll save you the bother: none.

Irrelevant, 4th is still better than 5th.

So he hasn't given us our best PL campaign, our best campaign was when we finished 4th

 

[nsno-chris]

So 72 points would have gotten 4th also

lollollollollollol

 

[davek]

Another fact is that our squad in 13/14 was light years better and more expensive than our 04/05 squad

There's always some excuse.

 

[PhilM]

Irrelevant, 4th is still better than 5th.

What you've got to understand is that Dave chooses to acknowledge (or uses) the importance of numbers only when it suit his needs.

Or maybe he doesn't understand the league is a descending scale not an ascending scale; 72pts is better than 61pts when it comes to points.

Nevertheless as you rightly put it though, in the league 4th is better than 5th just as winning a cup is better than not winning a cup.

 

[davek]

lollollollollollol

...but not in many seasons. 61 points:lightening struck to get CL football with that on that occasion...well, I say "CL football" when I mean two qualifying games where Moyes's cave man strategies were taken apart.

 

[nsno-chris]

...but not in many seasons. 61 points:lightening struck to get CL football with that on that occasion...well, I say "CL football" when I mean two qualifying games where Moyes's cave man strategies were taken apart.

4th is better than 5th, that's the bottom line. So he hasn't delivered our best PL campaign.

What you could say instead is that he delivered our best PL return; now I know it doesn't have the same pull as what you're trying to insinuate but there's no argument then.

You're welcome

P.s. I'll keep my eagle on your posts so I know the advice was taken on board

 

[The Esk]

The part in bold is you smuggling in a consequence that was never implied. You smuggle it in as it's the only way to get your 'smoking gun' vaulting exercise to work, so I dont blame you in the least for trying to insert it.

I stated a year ago there would be no hiding place - and that's where we are: the manager facing a full scale forum based lynching.

So, as you can see, the consistency is still intact. If there's a posting of mine you wish to provide where I've stated he should be dismissed I'd be happy to deal with it.

I have never suggested that you suggested he be dismissed, but given you anticipated the response to this level of performance 12 months ago, I find it very odd that you should be so quick to criticise those that hold that view, including myself.

It's the natural consequences of Martinez' consistent under-performance - I really don't mind or care if you hold an alternate view, but I do find it strange that you should characterise supporters who hold that view in the manner you have, given you yourself anticipated it.