Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[ilikecheese]

Kopite.

Harsh.

 

[LAToffee]

Harsh.

@COYBL25 there was a big wink emoji beside that which disappeared when I posted using my phone. Strongly disagree but would only call a fellow blue a kopite in fun.

 

[LAToffee]

Keep thinking back to @The Esk's poll about what is most important to us in any takeover of the club. I was really impressed by how many posters rated preserving "our values." Would be curious what they are. Is it just nsno? For me, there is also a certain loyalty to servants of the club and its history. Firing a manager after he wins us the first piece of silverware in 20 years is not Everton. And unlike @ilikecheese I am willing to accept a fractured fanbase if that fanbase is entitled and is acting like a fanbase who thinks football was invented by Sky and the only things that matters is Champions League.

 

[ilikecheese]

Keep thinking back to @The Esk's poll about what is most important to us in any takeover of the club. I was really impressed by how many posters rated preserving "our values." Would be curious what they are. Is it just nsno? For me, there is also a certain loyalty to servants of the club and its history. Firing a manager after he wins us the first piece of silverware in 20 years is not Everton. And unlike @ilikecheese I am willing to accept a fractured fanbase if that fanbase is entitled and is acting like a fanbase who thinks football was invented by Sky and the only things that matters is Champions League.

Let me be clear...I wouldn't want him to be fired. Sadly though in this day of instant gratification...and entitlement really...I think our best chance of moving forward is with a uniting hire. Because he was coming off relegation he was always a polarizing hire.

There is a vocal section of the fans who even if we win 10 on the bounce who would pipe down temporarily only to be massively critical at our next bad result.

It's a sad state of affairs...but sadly I only see change as a chance for us to move forward as a club...fans included.

 

[LAToffee]

Let me be clear...I wouldn't want him to be fired. Sadly though in this day of instant gratification...and entitlement really...I think our best chance of moving forward is with a uniting hire. Because he was coming off relegation he was always a polarizing hire.

There is a vocal section of the fans who even if we win 10 on the bounce who would pipe down temporarily only to be massively critical at our next bad result.

It's a sad state of affairs...but sadly I only see change as a chance for us to move forward as a club...fans included.

I say let the FA Cup be a test. In my club, he wins that, he gets another "season" (i.e. Another throw of the dice til Christmas). This club is bigger than the current fanbase. That's what's implied by "if you know your history." And I think the Club takes a stand and rewards our most successful manager since Royle with another season (which is Christmas). Firing him is totally crass. And will be a blight on our great and generous club.

 

[LAToffee]

We don't win the cup and I think we should thank Bobby for his service and move on. For me, there will be some fond memories

 

[JAYTALITY]

@COYBL25 there was a big wink emoji beside that which disappeared when I posted using my phone. Strongly disagree but would only call a fellow blue a kopite in fun.

Pffft, only a kopite would do that. ;-)

 

[kithnou]

Keep thinking back to @The Esk's poll about what is most important to us in any takeover of the club. I was really impressed by how many posters rated preserving "our values." Would be curious what they are. Is it just nsno? For me, there is also a certain loyalty to servants of the club and its history. Firing a manager after he wins us the first piece of silverware in 20 years is not Everton. And unlike @ilikecheese I am willing to accept a fractured fanbase if that fanbase is entitled and is acting like a fanbase who thinks football was invented by Sky and the only things that matters is Champions League.

Oh did we win the trophy and I missed it mate?
Let's cross that remote bridge when need to. As much as I hate to write this, I struggle to find a way to believe this current team knows how to not blow it.
Prove us wrong on field first. Then make judgements on a very patient fanbase mate.

 

[JAYTALITY]

Let me be clear...I wouldn't want him to be fired. Sadly though in this day of instant gratification...and entitlement really...I think our best chance of moving forward is with a uniting hire. Because he was coming off relegation he was always a polarizing hire.

There is a vocal section of the fans who even if we win 10 on the bounce who would pipe down temporarily only to be massively critical at our next bad result.

It's a sad state of affairs...but sadly I only see change as a chance for us to move forward as a club...fans included.

There is an even bigger portion of fans that have only lost patience recently deep into this season after embracing him when he was first appointed. Me being one.

 

[ilikecheese]

Oh did we win the trophy and I missed it mate?
Let's cross that remote bridge when need to. As much as I hate to write this, I struggle to find a way to believe this current team knows how to not blow it.
Prove us wrong on field first. Then make judgements on a very patient fanbase mate.

He was clearly adressing those who were calling for Martinez's head regardless of winning the Cup.

He also said out if we don't win.

 

[ilikecheese]

There is an even bigger portion of fans that have only lost patience recently deep into this season after embracing him when he was first appointed. Me being one.

Yep...I understand that. Personally I think it's premature, but I can understand why.

More reason why I believe change is the only way forward. Regardless of results. I personally don't think the fans will ever fully back him (again).

 

[kithnou]

He was clearly adressing those who were calling for Martinez's head regardless of winning the Cup.

He also said out if we don't win.

I apologise @LAToffee . Multitasking and only read the last post. Teaches me right...

 

[JAYTALITY]

...and then Kenwright did exactly what he said he'd do: gave Smith the following season.

Lol. I wish you'd screen your own propaganda.

Two things to take from it.

Backs manager verbally.

Sacks him the next season.

But don't worry he's not even in control anymore even if bill wanted to sack Martinez it won't happen. Unless Moshiri, ye know, has a brain.

But for now we can all agree using Bill quotes backing managers doesn't necessarily mean he wont want them sacked several months later.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Let me be clear...I wouldn't want him to be fired. Sadly though in this day of instant gratification...and entitlement really...I think our best chance of moving forward is with a uniting hire. Because he was coming off relegation he was always a polarizing hire.

There is a vocal section of the fans who even if we win 10 on the bounce who would pipe down temporarily only to be massively critical at our next bad result.

It's a sad state of affairs...but sadly I only see change as a chance for us to move forward as a club...fans included.

This is not a case of desire for instant gratification. 3 years isn't exactly the 9 months Utd fans gave Moyes, for example.

Results in this poll and the world outside it (other fanclubs/fanbases) started leaning heavily towards the "no" vote in the last 2 or so months, coincidentally the same time we won 3 on the bounce (IIRC?), mostly because it's taken him too long to see his own mistakes - Howard was in goal for about 5 months longer than he should've been, based on 0 good games last season and -1 good game this season, then he kept playing Kone for some reason, then he gave Mirallas a new contract just to leave him on the bench, and now Deulofeu can't play because we're obeying this problematic 1-winger-rule, where if we have two the world will likely explode, so we're better off shoehorning Cleverley in as a winger-thing apparently, and he's terrible at it.

He's probably gonna fix his stupidly bad defence in about 3 years time at this rate, unless something drastic happens and Moshiri/Kenwrong/aliens tell him to either fix that, or do one. The man is an absolute arsehat when it comes to using common sense and his eyes, it would seem.

Plus patience is running thin because of bad results. Yeah, we finished on record high points, well done Boberto, you rule. Oh, but what did we do with that the season after? Yup, early exits from all domestic cups, and shot ourselves in the foot in the Europa league, as well as finishing 11th... and he blamed it on the Europa and "not enough time to prepare because of the world cup" (?! as if it was only us that started then, with our 4 or so national team players at the time who actually played). We played some utter crap along the way as well.

Roll in season #3 - even worse league form, but oh well at least we're in the semi finals of both cups now! But our chances of winning the cup right now are the same as finishing 15th - a possibility, not a given. If results go our way we can also be circa 10th/just about top half, after sitting for most the year in the bottom half and just about scraping the so-coveted "top half finish". Our home form has been terrible and who's to blame - is it turd football and inability to preserve a score? No, it's the fans. Defo the fans. Oh and refs lads, them as well.

I'm fairly sure if Bob started saying and doing the right things again people won't be on his back - admit a mistake, make the right sub, do that game management thing from the 1st season, which is a far-gone and forgotten dream at this point. When he does even one of those things he gets praise, and it's quite obvious why - Evertonians aren't daft, we can see when something's done right. Thing is though, 1 time in 10 games isn't really a promising ratio of good things vs games is it? If this was his first season, then yeah - this is semi-acceptable, we might be building something, it will all click on soon... You gotta understand though, this is the man's third season, and for 2 of the last 3 years we've gone backwards, regressing further down the table. Yeah, we can win a cup, well done Boberto, but ultimately if someone looks at the league they're gonna go "well they clearly fluked a win, a-la *insert team that won then got shat on here* and look like they'd be relegated in a few years".

And how are people finding the place we are at even remotely acceptable is beyond me. We have Baines, Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, Jagielka (CAPTAIN), Coleman, McCarthy, McGeady (err... yeah, we have him right now I guess), Mirallas, Funes Mori, and even Tim Howard and Gibson - international footballers, one of them the second captain of England, and you can't win a game against the likes of Norwich or Bournemouth? At home?! Or you can't set up a defence consisting of England's finest young defender, allegedly, and Jagielka, who's been solid for about 7 years now? Or if either is not playing - another international defender in Funes Mori? Absolute laugh, that. Just like the voluntary ignoring of set pieces and their importance in the game, or lack of pressing, or slow tempo, or bad/wrong subs, or subs in the 89th minute, or... etc., you get my drift here anyway - it's not only ONE thing. The alarm bells for that were ringing in the first season as well, with some questionable decisions, but we were winning games, as the defence was still Moyes-esque, and we did ride our luck in a LOT of situations.

Bottom line, he's treading on a lot of people's nerves, and he keeps saying and doing wrong things, which doesn't help him at all. As a result - our home and overall league form is suffering, but Evertonians want a trophy, so we will naturally get up for the cup, as we want it that bad, and it's already in the later stages of it. If he doesn't deliver on that - he should just resign while people aren't out for his head.

 

[kithnou]

This is not a case of desire for instant gratification. 3 years isn't exactly the 9 months Utd fans gave Moyes, for example.

Results in this poll and the world outside it (other fanclubs/fanbases) started leaning heavily towards the "no" vote in the last 2 or so months, coincidentally the same time we won 3 on the bounce (IIRC?), mostly because it's taken him too long to see his own mistakes - Howard was in goal for about 5 months longer than he should've been, based on 0 good games last season and -1 good game this season, then he kept playing Kone for some reason, then he gave Mirallas a new contract just to leave him on the bench, and now Deulofeu can't play because we're obeying this problematic 1-winger-rule, where if we have two the world will likely explode, so we're better off shoehorning Cleverley in as a winger-thing apparently, and he's terrible at it.

He's probably gonna fix his stupidly bad defence in about 3 years time at this rate, unless something drastic happens and Moshiri/Kenwrong/aliens tell him to either fix that, or do one. The man is an absolute arsehat when it comes to using common sense and his eyes, it would seem.

Plus patience is running thin because of bad results. Yeah, we finished on record high points, well done Boberto, you rule. Oh, but what did we do with that the season after? Yup, early exits from all domestic cups, and shot ourselves in the foot in the Europa league, as well as finishing 11th... and he blamed it on the Europa and "not enough time to prepare because of the world cup" (?! as if it was only us that started then, with our 4 or so national team players at the time who actually played). We played some utter crap along the way as well.

Roll in season #3 - even worse league form, but oh well at least we're in the semi finals of both cups now! But our chances of winning the cup right now are the same as finishing 15th - a possibility, not a given. If results go our way we can also be circa 10th/just about top half, after sitting for most the year in the bottom half and just about scraping the so-coveted "top half finish". Our home form has been terrible and who's to blame - is it turd football and inability to preserve a score? No, it's the fans. Defo the fans. Oh and refs lads, them as well.

I'm fairly sure if Bob started saying and doing the right things again people won't be on his back - admit a mistake, make the right sub, do that game management thing from the 1st season, which is a far-gone and forgotten dream at this point. When he does even one of those things he gets praise, and it's quite obvious why - Evertonians aren't daft, we can see when something's done right. Thing is though, 1 time in 10 games isn't really a promising ratio of good things vs games is it? If this was his first season, then yeah - this is semi-acceptable, we might be building something, it will all click on soon... You gotta understand though, this is the man's third season, and for 2 of the last 3 years we've gone backwards, regressing further down the table. Yeah, we can win a cup, well done Boberto, but ultimately if someone looks at the league they're gonna go "well they clearly fluked a win, a-la *insert team that won then got shat on here* and look like they'd be relegated in a few years".

And how are people finding the place we are at even remotely acceptable is beyond me. We have Baines, Stones, Barkley, Lukaku, Jagielka (CAPTAIN), Coleman, McCarthy, McGeady (err... yeah, we have him right now I guess), Mirallas, Funes Mori, and even Tim Howard and Gibson - international footballers, one of them the second captain of England, and you can't win a game against the likes of Norwich or Bournemouth? At home?! Or you can't set up a defence consisting of England's finest young defender, allegedly, and Jagielka, who's been solid for about 7 years now? Or if either is not playing - another international defender in Funes Mori? Absolute laugh, that. Just like the voluntary ignoring of set pieces and their importance in the game, or lack of pressing, or slow tempo, or bad/wrong subs, or subs in the 89th minute, or... etc., you get my drift here anyway - it's not only ONE thing. The alarm bells for that were ringing in the first season as well, with some questionable decisions, but we were winning games, as the defence was still Moyes-esque, and we did ride our luck in a LOT of situations.

Bottom line, he's treading on a lot of people's nerves, and he keeps saying and doing wrong things, which doesn't help him at all. As a result - our home and overall league form is suffering, but Evertonians want a trophy, so we will naturally get up for the cup, as we want it that bad, and it's already in the later stages of it. If he doesn't deliver on that - he should just resign while people aren't out for his head.

+10 mate. Beautifully written and sums up most fans at the moment.
Even the more beautiful, considering you were the clear winner in that game you just played on facebook with your two female roommates