Roberto Martinez discussion

[wiggum23]

Our cup form wasn't much better really, Deulofeu singlehandedly dragged us past Barnsley and Reading, then we were abysmal against Norwich but scraped in on pens. The only decent performance of the lot was Boro away. As expected, as soon as we met a top ten side we went out. Would have lost over two legs to any of the semi finalists and that's what happens when you don't value defence.

Bang on, it's not the fault of just the defence or keeper, though he is terrible. We don't defend well as a team and that is down to the culture of the management. We are soft, with a focus on pretty attacking play with no backbone.

 

[Ashtonian]

After last nights game, when you step away from the whole result we went out due to poor defending rather that 'being robbed' as seems to be the official tag line.

The first goal we conceded was a shot outside the box deflected in again. Except why is there no-one rushing that area to prevent the ball breaking to a player in space? The defence is too deep in a seige mentality, so fernandhino/fabregas can have time to put a shot in, bad luck it deflects in but that shot shouldn't be allowed to begin with.

the second goal went out, great it went out, but what if it didn't? It was still a cross and a goal, no-one was picking up the rushing bruyne or (Aguero?) from the edge of the box because again our defence was too deep to react to any danger. Between mori / jags / whoever the third one was, none of them saw sterling running the by line and looked up to see who he was passing the ball to, or to fill the open space in the box. We weren't robbed, it was poor defending again and at that point we were still in the competition so moaning about that is pointless.

third goal, happy to concede it was a class goal from a world class striker. We can pick out stones not being a right back or analyse the footage but to be fair that was a quality header and it is what aguero is paid to do, score them important goals.

So on the whole, it was a poor defensive display from everton again, another reflection on our season to date and we have only ourselves to blame for going out.

 

[Azza]

the second goal went out, great it went out, but what if it didn't? It was still a cross and a goal, no-one was picking up the rushing bruyne or (Aguero?) from the edge of the box because again our defence was too deep to react to any danger. Between mori / jags / whoever the third one was, none of them saw sterling running the by line and looked up to see who he was passing the ball to, or to fill the open space in the box. We weren't robbed, it was poor defending again and at that point we were still in the competition so moaning about that is pointless.

100% agree. It was Aguero with de Bryune.

Jags ran to the near post (why?!), Funes Mori was on the 6 yard line and so was Baines who was sort of marking Navas, Barry had Auguero and de Bryune walk in behind him while he stuck his hand in the air.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

100% agree. It was Aguero with de Bryune.

Jags ran to the near post (why?!), Funes Mori was on the 6 yard line and so was Baines who was sort of marking Navas, Barry had Auguero and de Bryune walk in behind him while he stuck his hand in the air.

Someone sent me a screenshot this morning of the second goal - at the time i was that fuming i didn't even get onto it. We had 5 players in the box.

A lot of the venting incorrectly will be at the linesman etc, but realistically any footballer should be told to play to the whistle, and at least do your job. Once again "clean sheets don't matter", and unfortunately we did have something to lose not matter what he said.

"no-one should feel disappointed". the mind absolutely blew up when he said that!

 

[toffee matt]

We were 3-1 up on aggregate and still managed to loose in 90 minutes

But we shouldn't be disappointed??? What is he smoking

 

[RFUS]

You can't consistently win matches when you concede at the rate we do. His recent comments show he doesn't think much of tight defending and concentrates on style and attack.

I really don't see us turning things around with him in charge, which is a shame as he was a breath of fresh air at the start. Now he is more of a breath of dog crap.

My favourite summary of the situation right here.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

It's not just his approach to defence though.
We're constantly found out in centre mid, the amount of uncontested 1st/2nd ball by our midfield is criminal. It's as if no one can read /predict the flight of the ball. Barry has been great with his football brain but any team with top 4 aspirations that most fans feel we should be challenging for should not be relying so heavily on a bloke passed his peak at nearly 35. Pressure on defence is reduced with an effective midfield unit.
The bottom line is that we have a few talented individuals who turn up now and again - not a cohesive team unit. All roads lead to Martinez.

....I'm starting to think do we actually rate this side WAY higher than it deserves to be rated?

 

[kenada_blue]

We were 3-1 up on aggregate and still managed to loose in 90 minutes

But we shouldn't be disappointed??? What is he smoking

Again, we are the only side in the entire English league to be able to score 2 to 3 goals a game and still not win.

This goes for 2 legged ties such as this one.

 

[Little Ralphy]

third goal, happy to concede it was a class goal from a world class striker. We can pick out stones not being a right back or analyse the footage but to be fair that was a quality header and it is what aguero is paid to do, score them important goals.

I agree with most of your post but the third goal, we should be stopping crosses in to the box. It's a weird thing at Everton that even Moyes let happen (I remember Joe Royle saying he Kendall and Harvey all picked out Psycho Pat as our best ever left back because he stopped crosses). Especially when you consider our defence are not very good in the air. Aguero is a quality striker no doubt, but he's also tiny. Stones not being a right back should have helped us more cos you'd have thought he'd come over and pick up the man better given where he was.

No pressure on the ball allows good players to pick out good balls, add that to the fact that no one tracks any runs then you're asking for trouble.

 

[kenada_blue]

Im not calling for anyones head or anything but we wasted a glorious opportunity in Kiev last year and we blew another glorious opportunity last night.We still have the FA cup thankfully but i think it's fair to say that the manager blotted his copybook yet again last night.Anything less than an FA Cup or a top half of the table placing by the end of the season obviously means that the hard questions will have to be asked.Viva the revolution eh.

Both competitions...don't concede 2 and you're through or in a good position.

Conceded about 9 altogether.

It's laughable

 

[smileychap]

Bang on, it's not the fault of just the defence or keeper, though he is terrible. We don't defend well as a team and that is down to the culture of the management. We are soft, with a focus on pretty attacking play with no backbone.

The only really galling thing I'd alter in the last sentence above is "We've become soft...".

All of the areas flagged for improvement on this forum regarding Martinez are things that were already a strength when he joined. He did OK in the transfer market too, which gave him and the team a golden chance to move Everton forward. And so it proved in Season 1: Backbone (Moyes team) + football (Martinez team) = success, and v.unlucky that wasn't CL success.

However he hasn't understood (or if he has, certainly hasn't demonstrated) what goes into that backbone - and how to maintain that, as even I think even Martinez devotees would agree.

Cups / cup runs don't mask league slides: as Wigan, Southampton, Hull, Millwall, Birmingham and a bunch of other sides non Sky 4 sides who've made FA Cup and League Cup finals can attest.

So the question in this post is:

Is Martinez simply a board-level gamble to fluke a cup?

If no: is he still a serious decision for a club interested in league performance (happy to be convinced on this)?

If yes: why is that seen to be better strategy for overall success than being and established top 6 contender able to break the top 4 when the Man Utd's, Chelea's (and City, it will come) are napping? A la Spurs, Liverpool?

 

[sheedys left foot]

Good piece from big nev regarding the Everton defence under Martinez system

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Your spot on about the uncontested balls, that and the lack of pressing is my main gripe. Standing off just invites pressure and pressure is what we don't deal with very well.

Great teams defend from the front and unfortunately our front two of Lukaku and Barkley for whatever reason are definitely instructed not to close down space and not put a foot in. That gives the opposition time to set themselves and before you know it 3 passes later the opposition have a chance on goal.

This ^ all day long.

Barkley wandering around not closing or barely attempting to get a challenge in, does my nut in.

We sit off concede ground, don't put pressure on the ball, which allows the opposition time and space and then any form of decent ball cuts through us, it's absolute basics.

Compare the work rate of Leicester for example to our laid back "go 'ed then" approach.

Last night was a game were we needed to leave everything on the pitch, those players came off with plenty left in the tank. And that's down to his wretched philosophy.

 

[Azza]

Remember when we gave him a new contract after his first season.

 

[By god I'm blue]

It's like a bad marriage now.

You can go into counselling, therapy...discuss your feelings, but the underlying feeling that won't go away is that it's not going to work and you should part ways and move on.

If he hadn't committed adultery (won 18 out of 61 since August 2014) then we would not be in this position!