Roman Abramovich hands over ‘stewardship and care’ of Chelsea football club

[catcherintherye]

There GDP is undervalued lol, a country of almost 200 million with a GDP capita of measly laughable 10k dollars per person, Norway's GDP per capita another natural resources country of 4 million is $ 67k per person

Russia with that wealth and that amount of people with the most gas reserves in the world and oil ranked 4th most In the world and metal resources should not be having a GDP 5 trillion behind a country of Germany with a third of the population.

Soviet Union was bankrupt, a toddler could have improved that GDP after Yeltsin haha, wasn't hard, all they did was get western help to restore their gas and oil refineries to produce more and the Iraq war started where oil jumped from $ 30 dollars a barrel to $ 150 a barrel from 2003 to 2008.

Again the systematic robbery of Abramovich, Khordovsky Usmanov etc who pillaged and robbed from the Russian people and created a mafia state where 400 Oligarch and their corporations own $900 billion dollars per year of the GDP.

As I said Russia should be having a 7-8 trillion GDP and around $50k GDP per capita.

I'm not sure you're answering my question though mate. You seem to be making a number of opinions, that are a bit questionable really.

For the record, what do you make of the American banks, hedge funds, financial instruments etc that engineered and subsequently benefitted from the mass privatisation of the Russian economy, based on their principles? Do you place equivalent responsibility of the originators of the policy? Or indeed any responsibility?

As for the 2nd, I've asked you to answer how GDP has grown under Putin. You didnt answer, so I will give you a hand. GDP per person has increased over 400% under his leadership. To give some comparison, America has grown about 70% in that time. The UK is around 50% increase in the same time frame. Essentially Russia has grown wealth per head at around 6x per head v USA, and 8 x per head compared to the UK in the period Putin has been in charge. And that includes all the wealth that has been taken out by "oligarchs".

It feels a bit of a foolhardy argument for you to say Putin has failed because of lack of economic progress. In the politest way, it's a bit ignorant of the progress he has made in this regard.

There are many genuine criticisms of Putin. Domestic policy, lack of democracy, flirtation with the far right, nationalism and homophobia. I'm not sure he can really be blamed for lack of economic growth though. He also cant be blamed that he doesnt have as much money as a country with around 18 times his resources per head (Norway) is still richer. You cant expect to eliminate that gap in 20 years.

 

[catcherintherye]

There GDP is undervalued lol, a country of almost 200 million with a GDP capita of measly laughable 10k dollars per person, Norway's GDP per capita another natural resources country of 4 million is $ 67k per person

Russia with that wealth and that amount of people with the most gas reserves in the world and oil ranked 4th most In the world and metal resources should not be having a GDP 5 trillion behind a country of Germany with a third of the population.

Soviet Union was bankrupt, a toddler could have improved that GDP after Yeltsin haha, wasn't hard, all they did was get western help to restore their gas and oil refineries to produce more and the Iraq war started where oil jumped from $ 30 dollars a barrel to $ 150 a barrel from 2003 to 2008.

Again the systematic robbery of Abramovich, Khordovsky Usmanov etc who pillaged and robbed from the Russian people and created a mafia state where 400 Oligarch and their corporations own $900 billion dollars per year of the GDP.

As I said Russia should be having a 7-8 trillion GDP and around $50k GDP per capita.

P.S is there any evidence that say Usmanov stole from Russian people, in a way that was any different to say wealthy Americans build asset wealth? I've yet to see any conviction of Usmanov for theft. Happy to change tact if that can be proven, but I sense this is another half truth.

Unfortunately, like many entrepreneurs, he maximised liquidity in a free market to build wealth.

 

[catcherintherye]

It dependa.

Soris being jewish is a big issue for many people who are quite racist.

I dont think him being Jewish or otherwise should come into it.

But, from a commercial perspective, Soros runs a very successful hedge fund, so theoretically would be a good thing.

 

[Dundee mifflin]

I'm not sure you're answering my question though mate. You seem to be making a number of opinions, that are a bit questionable really.

For the record, what do you make of the American banks, hedge funds, financial instruments etc that engineered and subsequently benefitted from the mass privatisation of the Russian economy, based on their principles? Do you place equivalent responsibility of the originators of the policy? Or indeed any responsibility?

As for the 2nd, I've asked you to answer how GDP has grown under Putin. You didnt answer, so I will give you a hand. GDP per person has increased over 400% under his leadership. To give some comparison, America has grown about 70% in that time. The UK is around 50% increase in the same time frame. Essentially Russia has grown wealth per head at around 6x per head v USA, and 8 x per head compared to the UK in the period Putin has been in charge. And that includes all the wealth that has been taken out by "oligarchs".

It feels a bit of a foolhardy argument for you to say Putin has failed because of lack of economic progress. In the politest way, it's a bit ignorant of the progress he has made in this regard.

There are many genuine criticisms of Putin. Domestic policy, lack of democracy, flirtation with the far right, nationalism and homophobia. I'm not sure he can really be blamed for lack of economic growth though. He also cant be blamed that he doesnt have as much money as a country with around 18 times his resources per head (Norway) is still richer. You cant expect to eliminate that gap in 20 years.

Cor blimey,the lot of that went over my head!!

 

[EverTheOptimist]

P.S is there any evidence that say Usmanov stole from Russian people, in a way that was any different to say wealthy Americans build asset wealth? I've yet to see any conviction of Usmanov for theft. Happy to change tact if that can be proven, but I sense this is another half truth.

Unfortunately, like many entrepreneurs, he maximised liquidity in a free market to build wealth.

The bolded bit, something about 6 years doing bird in Uzbekistan i read about that other day, he had a very interesting intermediary who got him released as well.

Anyone who gets sanctioned assets seized, he's in some illustrious company.

 

[EverTheOptimist]

I'm not sure you're answering my question though mate. You seem to be making a number of opinions, that are a bit questionable really.

For the record, what do you make of the American banks, hedge funds, financial instruments etc that engineered and subsequently benefitted from the mass privatisation of the Russian economy, based on their principles? Do you place equivalent responsibility of the originators of the policy? Or indeed any responsibility?

As for the 2nd, I've asked you to answer how GDP has grown under Putin. You didnt answer, so I will give you a hand. GDP per person has increased over 400% under his leadership. To give some comparison, America has grown about 70% in that time. The UK is around 50% increase in the same time frame. Essentially Russia has grown wealth per head at around 6x per head v USA, and 8 x per head compared to the UK in the period Putin has been in charge. And that includes all the wealth that has been taken out by "oligarchs".

It feels a bit of a foolhardy argument for you to say Putin has failed because of lack of economic progress. In the politest way, it's a bit ignorant of the progress he has made in this regard.

There are many genuine criticisms of Putin. Domestic policy, lack of democracy, flirtation with the far right, nationalism and homophobia. I'm not sure he can really be blamed for lack of economic growth though. He also cant be blamed that he doesnt have as much money as a country with around 18 times his resources per head (Norway) is still richer. You cant expect to eliminate that gap in 20 years.

Going to 400% GDP gross when you you have such a low mark to begin with isn't impressive mate, Angola was about the same, when they started oil and gas production, again they started from such a low bar of no production whatsoever thanks to decades long civil war, Norway in the 70's probably had the same jump when they started oil and gas production.

Again, Soviet Union collapsed for a reason lol, it was 3rd world, they were practically as scholars says say "painting rust for decades" to make the West think they were financially strong.

Their oil and gas refineries were practically none existent, they took loans from the World Bank, IMF, hell even America gave them aid in the mid 90's, and Russia got help from European and America oil companies to rebuild their refineries, so when oil and gas started pumping out their growth is going to jump up when they you go from barely any barrels of oil a day to 13 million barrels a day by the early 00's, then the the war on terror really was a good time for energy rich countries when Oil was selling from before the war at an average of $30 dollars a barrel to $120-$180 up and down for 8 years in the 00's. Gazprom Yukoil Sibneft, Abramovich, Usmanov and Khordovsky who were the heads of those companies in the early 00's saw a massive jump in their wealth in that time frame.

But their growth has slowed down considerably the last decade, to reliant on oil and gas revenues while not building any other industries like a functioning country does, while the rest of the west has gradually gone up, Russia has stagnated because it's a commodity dependent economy, they hit a everest peak and couldn't maintain it when energy prices lowered and they flatlined, countries in the west saw GDP continually grow in the same time frame, since 2010 Usa went from a 14 trillion GDP to 20 trillion today, China from 6 trillion to 14 trillion today, Germany Australia Canada India UK and and japan have seen the same growth in the same time frame.

Russian GDP in 2010 was 1.5 trillion, last year their GDP was 1.4 trillion and Oligarchs own 70% of the GDP and that is why Russia has a 10k GDP per capita, you say capitalists in the west stole riches, at least the money trickles down promotes growth, Education and vibrant new industries and why the western world countries averages 40k to 60K gdp per capita, that doesn't happen in Russia, who and what is stopping the growth, where is the money going for the younger generations who'll eventaully take on the mantel of the country, why have they not been building a vibrant expanding economy that isn't commodity based mate?

 

[RomanReigns]

Only got 2.9 billion unfortunately

 

[CharliePotato]

The bolded bit, something about 6 years doing bird in Uzbekistan i read about that other day, he had a very interesting intermediary who got him released as well.

Anyone who gets sanctioned assets seized, he's in some illustrious company.

Wasn’t for theft.

 

[twoblue]

I do recall some American interest before Moshiri, doubt it's the same people.
Vital we stay up as if there is something in this Americans dont understand the relegation and promotion concept

Pretty sure after a ten minute explanations most Americans will understand the promotion and relegation concept.
It’s not quantum physics

 

[TN Toffee]

Pretty sure after a ten minute explanations most Americans will understand the promotion and relegation concept.
It’s not quantum physics

It’s not that they don’t understand it. They understand it completely, and basically reject the idea outright. From a business perspective, the American model of rewarding failure with the best draft picks to help improve your team is far preferable to the sink or swim world of the football pyramid.

 

[EverTheOptimist]

Wasn’t for theft.

Well the amazing comments by the ex ambassador of Uzbekistan a few years ago had some things to say, he never did get taken to court for libelous claims either Something Oligarchs in London love doing, he was being accused of being a gangster and racketeer from his Arsenal days I recall, that's why the Arsenal board put a lockdown in his shareholding and capped it at a level that he would never get a majority.

Last August, the Uzbek-born businessman declared himself a fan of English football, and of Arsenal in particular. He bought 14.58% of the club's shares, and the following month increased that stake to 23%, worth £120m, making him the club's second-largest shareholder. Few in football, or the City, doubt that he would dearly love to take complete control.

It being an immutable rule of the modern game that a vast sum of cash is the first requirement of success, perhaps Usmanov expected Arsenal fans to be singing songs in celebration of his arrival. It has not quite happened that way. Instead, there have been banners at the Emirates Stadium proclaiming "Love Arsenal - Hate Usmanov" and "Sod Off Jabba", his new nickname in north London.

He has been forced to fend off accusations that he is a gangster and a racketeer. Far, far worse allegations have been swirling around the blogosphere. And the club's board has engineered a so-called lock-down of shares, to prevent any more falling into his hands for the next five years.

"He's certainly not an open book," said the club's chairman, Peter Hill-Wood. "Business is murky in Uzbekistan, and that in itself is an argument against him being involved in Arsenal. I wouldn't want him to be the owner of the club."

The associate who leaned on president Islam Karamov to have him released was interesting though.

The head of the Russian mafia "Brother's Circle", interesting friend indeed who can pull out a request like that to a president of a country, astounding!!!

 

[catcherintherye]

The bolded bit, something about 6 years doing bird in Uzbekistan i read about that other day, he had a very interesting intermediary who got him released as well.

Anyone who gets sanctioned assets seized, he's in some illustrious company.

What was his conviction?

And his crime seems to be to be associated with a country that's an enemy of American imperialism. Many would say that was a badge of honour.

 

[catcherintherye]

Well the amazing comments by the ex ambassador of Uzbekistan a few years ago had some things to say, he never did get taken to court for libelous claims either Something Oligarchs in London love doing, he was being accused of being a gangster and racketeer from his Arsenal days I recall, that's why the Arsenal board put a lockdown in his shareholding and capped it at a level that he would never get a majority.

Last August, the Uzbek-born businessman declared himself a fan of English football, and of Arsenal in particular. He bought 14.58% of the club's shares, and the following month increased that stake to 23%, worth £120m, making him the club's second-largest shareholder. Few in football, or the City, doubt that he would dearly love to take complete control.

It being an immutable rule of the modern game that a vast sum of cash is the first requirement of success, perhaps Usmanov expected Arsenal fans to be singing songs in celebration of his arrival. It has not quite happened that way. Instead, there have been banners at the Emirates Stadium proclaiming "Love Arsenal - Hate Usmanov" and "Sod Off Jabba", his new nickname in north London.

He has been forced to fend off accusations that he is a gangster and a racketeer. Far, far worse allegations have been swirling around the blogosphere. And the club's board has engineered a so-called lock-down of shares, to prevent any more falling into his hands for the next five years.

"He's certainly not an open book," said the club's chairman, Peter Hill-Wood. "Business is murky in Uzbekistan, and that in itself is an argument against him being involved in Arsenal. I wouldn't want him to be the owner of the club."

The associate who leaned on president Islam Karamov to have him released was interesting though.

The head of the Russian mafia "Brother's Circle", interesting friend indeed who can pull out a request like that to a president of a country, astounding!!!

I mean anyone can say anything. Has he been convicted in impartial court of theft? It's not a hard question.

 

[catcherintherye]

Going to 400% GDP gross when you you have such a low mark to begin with isn't impressive mate, Angola was about the same, when they started oil and gas production, again they started from such a low bar of no production whatsoever thanks to decades long civil war, Norway in the 70's probably had the same jump when they started oil and gas production.

Again, Soviet Union collapsed for a reason lol, it was 3rd world, they were practically as scholars says say "painting rust for decades" to make the West think they were financially strong.

Their oil and gas refineries were practically none existent, they took loans from the World Bank, IMF, hell even America gave them aid in the mid 90's, and Russia got help from European and America oil companies to rebuild their refineries, so when oil and gas started pumping out their growth is going to jump up when they you go from barely any barrels of oil a day to 13 million barrels a day by the early 00's, then the the war on terror really was a good time for energy rich countries when Oil was selling from before the war at an average of $30 dollars a barrel to $120-$180 up and down for 8 years in the 00's. Gazprom Yukoil Sibneft, Abramovich, Usmanov and Khordovsky who were the heads of those companies in the early 00's saw a massive jump in their wealth in that time frame.

But their growth has slowed down considerably the last decade, to reliant on oil and gas revenues while not building any other industries like a functioning country does, while the rest of the west has gradually gone up, Russia has stagnated because it's a commodity dependent economy, they hit a everest peak and couldn't maintain it when energy prices lowered and they flatlined, countries in the west saw GDP continually grow in the same time frame, since 2010 Usa went from a 14 trillion GDP to 20 trillion today, China from 6 trillion to 14 trillion today, Germany Australia Canada India UK and and japan have seen the same growth in the same time frame.

Russian GDP in 2010 was 1.5 trillion, last year their GDP was 1.4 trillion and Oligarchs own 70% of the GDP and that is why Russia has a 10k GDP per capita, you say capitalists in the west stole riches, at least the money trickles down promotes growth, Education and vibrant new industries and why the western world countries averages 40k to 60K gdp per capita, that doesn't happen in Russia, who and what is stopping the growth, where is the money going for the younger generations who'll eventaully take on the mantel of the country, why have they not been building a vibrant expanding economy that isn't commodity based mate?

I will come back in detail when I have time. But one quick point. Money doesnt trickle down in the West. Thats knew of the biggest myths going. Money and resources have flowed upwards to the top, in an enormous way over the last 40 years.

As I've said previously, China lifts more people out of poverty every year than all of the West. In the west people are put into poverty as money travels upwards. They call that "wealth creation".

 

[emir]

Chelsea fans chanting Abramovich's name during the minute of silence for Ukraine just reinforces the stereotype of a lot of football fans being far right.