Ronald Koeman discussion

[BigDunc'sFod]

Disagree players can not understand what role they are given. If that falls with the manager not and not understanding some of they squad has a football brain.

Manager clearly has been startled by sheer poor squad and comments about quality/aggression is word he uses (He also calls wingers strikers it is some broken language but this is what he means but sugar coating it)

For me he has not panicked. kept cool and dealt with it the best way he can in grinding out results.

It is not pretty but he has been backed into a corner as he knows our poor start coupled together with saints last year form will make him sacked before jan.

He didn't sit back and want a pay off and be sacked.

I could feel his his body language positive vibe vs Leicester and see his post match interview is honest and blunt.

Qualities Martinez lacked(honest and blunt and that made you question if his passion was there or all talk no substance)

Compare to Martinez when he was backed into a corner of players downing tools he stuck to a philosophy and was unable to change formation and do some Moyes like wins.

For me noticeable difference was after watford you are allowed your opinion but mine is martinez lost his dressing room and when things went bad at saints and at Everton the players kept with him and subsequently bounced back with 3 wins out of 5.

We can all have off days v LFC or Leicester put that down to the bad mental state Roberto left on them.

That is what we need people being able to stick together in bad times. Let's hope good times are on the way because I do think Koeman wants to do well here and if that is to move on that's good for the club because we will be a higher level than 7th.

Have faith Koeman will come good I think he will we may even get a better caliber of manager when he goes than two back to back 11th place finishes

I have faith we will be in a better state under Moshiri and Koeman than two people who summed up old era in Bill Kenwright and Martinez.

The thing is as a Premier League manager he should have known enough about the team to know how to work with most of the players at his disposal, and work a system that they could fit into until he was able to buy the players he wanted or get these players to adapt. Results matter, though.

For me, he's been too slow to recognise that some of the players simply cannot play the style he prefers, or that the style he prefers isn't necessarily the best for getting the job done. Some have been impressed by his willingness to make changes at half time. I see that as him getting the starting lineup and tactics wrong in the first place (though thankfully he does change it, which is not something our past gaffers have done).

I liked the football Martinez playe (and Moyes, near the end we weren't terrible). Martinez needed to understand that we needed some organization in defence. Moyes needed to learn that we can't crap ourselves when we come up against anyone in the top 4. I hope that Koeman turns this around with some astute signings, clever tactics and ambition on the pitch, and even better if he does it with style. If he doesn't get us any better, despite spending 100m+, then we have to accept that and move on. You can't give someone 350m+ to replace every player on the pitch before you ask if they've shown enough to keep them around.

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

I'd agree the world disgusting would be a overreaction. I've no problem with people criticizing him but some of the stick he's taken has been ridiculous by anyone's standards. Legitimate criticism is fair enough but some weeks it feels like loads of people delight in his failure. I can't understand the idea of disliking a manager because he wasn't your first choice like some blues have.

I don't think anyone here would ever genuinely delight in the failure of our club.

 

[Warlordperforming]

That's a remearkabe reading of Koeman's time here so far. It almost makes it sound like the primitive football and the failure to adapt what players he has are virtues. They're not. His reign so far has stumbled and he cuts an estranged figure at this club. Apparently the theory is that he can buy in his better times with more players. Well let's see how far we get with that. My guess is that we wont see too much change for the better and then he really will be fighting for his job.

He;s amazed me, tbh. I said he was the one we should have gone for last summer. But he has been a disaster so far, and I have zero faith in his method...whatever that happens to be from week to week.

If you have no faith in his currant method do you have him high enough of the person to turn it around. The last manager couldn't do it do you think Koeman is better than Martinez? Think he is a breath of fresh air and what we need as a club.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I don't think anyone here would ever genuinely delight in the failure of our club.

I would of agreed with you not so long ago mate but I'm really not that sure anymore. Some seem to only appear after a defeat. Perhaps they don't delight in our failure but they certainly delight in the chaos.

 

[Warlordperforming]

The thing is as a Premier League manager he should have known enough about the team to know how to work with most of the players at his disposal, and work a system that they could fit into until he was able to buy the players he wanted or get these players to adapt. Results matter, though.

For me, he's been too slow to recognise that some of the players simply cannot play the style he prefers, or that the style he prefers isn't necessarily the best for getting the job done. Some have been impressed by his willingness to make changes at half time. I see that as him getting the starting lineup and tactics wrong in the first place (though thankfully he does change it, which is not something our past gaffers have done).

I liked the football Martinez playe (and Moyes, near the end we weren't terrible). Martinez needed to understand that we needed some organization in defence. Moyes needed to learn that we can't crap ourselves when we come up against anyone in the top 4. I hope that Koeman turns this around with some astute signings, clever tactics and ambition on the pitch, and even better if he does it with style. If he doesn't get us any better, despite spending 100m+, then we have to accept that and move on. You can't give someone 350m+ to replace every player on the pitch before you ask if they've shown enough to keep them around.

I think that is a fair and balanced view. We give Roberto Martinez a lot of money net if it is balanced out great but if we do spend this jans budget

I would like to see an improvement by end of season but if we don't get an improvement and still get 7th he still gets another season as he may hit ground running with a good summer and full pre season then we can aim top 6 and see if we looking better style of play wise and have a cup run.

This is realistic steps to move forward and within a few years catch up with Spurs who are leap frogging us since going backwards.

It is not unreasonable to have to take 7th and look like we moving forward and least give him another window and least money Martinez got.

 

[Dirty Dutch]

Here we go again.......

 

[davek]

If you have no faith in his currant method do you have him high enough of the person to turn it around. The last manager couldn't do it do you think Koeman is better than Martinez? Think he is a breath of fresh air and what we need as a club.

I think he's even more stubborn than Martinez, and he certainly doesn't have RMs diplomatic skills.

i expect a big crisis very early into next season for Koeman.

 

[Warlordperforming]

I think he's even more stubborn than Martinez, and he certainly doesn't have RMs diplomatic skills.

i expect a big crisis very early into next season for Koeman.

Do you not see end of Martinez era players poor minus a few.


Do you not see that we have a broken dressing room with players being promised they are being sold to 'big club'?


They have to deliver every loss is moral shattering the chelsea game ruined us that is how fragile they are.


Part of the players who let down Mr Martinez needed to be stood up and counted. They failed an Everton manager and that is unacceptable

Now we can't say Martinez or Moyes standard we want this club to be.

We need to aim big let him set pace we will take 7th in first season and go again and smash a glass ceiling this takes smarts(Walsh) Ambition Moshiri and bravery from fans

We should not settle for second best and only NSNO this is our motto we should defend from pride not hold 'one good season' by Martinez as a way of measuring. Just judge the whole of Martinez and it was poor.

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

I would of agreed with you not so long ago mate but I'm really not that sure anymore. Some seem to only appear after a defeat. Perhaps they don't delight in our failure but they certainly delight in the chaos.

WUMers? Suppose, like. Not genuinely loving our failure though, just looking for something to enjoy and control (we have no control when it comes to EFC playing plop)

 

[Blues Harp]

Martinez was diplomatic to the point of being stupidly optimistic about some godawful displays - his post match comments often did not reflect the performance on the pitch. RK may well have underestmated the task ahead of him and not realised how toxic El fraudo's methods had eaten into the players' psyche but some on here were gunning for him from day one - Favre?? do me a favour eh?

 

[BigDunc'sFod]

Now we can't say Martinez or Moyes standard we want this club to be.

We need to aim big let him set pace we will take 7th in first season and go again and smash a glass ceiling this takes smarts(Walsh) Ambition Moshiri and bravery from fans

We should not settle for second best and only NSNO this is our motto we should defend from pride not hold 'one good season' by Martinez as a way of measuring. Just judge the whole of Martinez and it was poor.

Belfodil IN

 

[ToffeeTim]

Yes Ron. Just you keep sacking off all the Brown Shoes dross and we'll get along just fine.

 

[jinkyali]

I think he's even more stubborn than Martinez, and he certainly doesn't have RMs diplomatic skills.

i expect a big crisis very early into next season for Koeman.

RM diplomacy skills got him the sack.

 

[davek]

RM diplomacy skills got him the sack.

https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/...belgium-head-coach.90386/page-93#post-5175884

 

[Famous_Seamus]

The lack of a discernible style week in week out (apart from a commitment to go long when under pressure) has been disorienting. I think that's what the article picks up on.

When you compare this first season of Koeman's to other managers who hit the ground running it really is heavy weather he's made of it.

But ok, we have more of HIS preferred players in now, so things will be better from now on........

Please provide recent examples of managers who have "hit the ground running" so we can have a clear picture of what that means and how poorly Koeman measures up.