Ronald Koeman discussion

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Saint Domingo said:
For me any of the below are a real indicator that he is capable of breaking the mould with us:

Trophy
Top 4 finish
Away win at so called big 6
Dominant Derby win at Goodison

Sadly, until any of the above start happening we can talk until we are blue in the face about him doing this, or saying that, but he won't be doing any better than Moyes did.

That's the cold hard truth that us as fans need to accept to push Koeman and Everton to the next level. I'm fed up clapping another Goodison sunshine stroll at the end of another nothing season. In fact watching us dismantle a good Leicester side had the edge taken off it knowing that we'd capitulated twice the week before and to the same Leicester side in the cup.

If none of the above happen, no matter what people protest, we won't improve. You can't make top 4 just beating up dross at Goodison in the second half of the season. If you can't win regularly on the road and compete with your rivals home and away you don't win anything no matter how good your home form is. Koeman has to tick one of the above boxes for me it's as simple as that. If he goes 3 seasons without ticking any of them then I can guarantee no matter how easily we put away the WBAs of this world, how many Lukaku is scoring, how many cheeky dinks Tom Davies is throwing in, we won't have moved forward.

He has to take the next step. Go to the Emirates at the last day and play like we did v Leicester. Go and lay down a marker to a team in disarray, show the players that they can win at these grounds and that he expects more of the same next season.

He has to obliterate plucky little Everton once and for all to be considered a success.
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Small steps like.

The only disappointments for me really this season are the cups.

I'm numb to the derby games anyway.
 

BlueToff said:
Small steps like.

The only disappointments for me really this season are the cups.

I'm numb to the derby games anyway.
Click to expand...

Two of the 4 steps I've mentioned are small, they're what every other club does all the time. One of the other steps Moyes pulled off. It looks like an impossibly high bar because of the mental block we've had for years but @davek is right, (when he's not pushing his agenda), the bar needs to be this high for Koeman if we want to move forward. This is a good start but no more. Finishing higher than 7th and beating Arsenal would be a change from the norm, but if we finish 7th with no big away wins for all it's promise it is actually in the cold light of day no different to what Moyes did when we put teams away with ease at Goodison in the spring and raved about how Rodwell and Gosling were the future.
 
Saint Domingo said:
Two of the 4 steps I've mentioned are small, they're what every other club does all the time. One of the other steps Moyes pulled off. It looks like an impossibly high bar because of the mental block we've had for years but @davek is right, (when he's not pushing his agenda), the bar needs to be this high for Koeman if we want to move forward. This is a good start but no more. Finishing higher than 7th and beating Arsenal would be a change from the norm, but if we finish 7th with no big away wins for all it's promise it is actually in the cold light of day no different to what Moyes did when we put teams away with ease at Goodison in the spring and raved about how Rodwell and Gosling were the future.
Click to expand...

Totally agree except the difference is, Moyes set our glass ceiling.

Not once has Koeman done so.

While he's always been realistic, he's consistently said that we're in the race for top six and has been proven correct.

We're there and there abouts and are in for the most 'exciting' (relatively speaking of course) end to a league season since 13/14.
 

Saint Domingo said:
For me any of the below are a real indicator that he is capable of breaking the mould with us:

Trophy
Top 4 finish
Away win at so called big 6
Dominant Derby win at Goodison

Sadly, until any of the above start happening we can talk until we are blue in the face about him doing this, or saying that, but he won't be doing any better than Moyes did.

That's the cold hard truth that us as fans need to accept to push Koeman and Everton to the next level. I'm fed up clapping another Goodison sunshine stroll at the end of another nothing season. In fact watching us dismantle a good Leicester side had the edge taken off it knowing that we'd capitulated twice the week before and to the same Leicester side in the cup.

If none of the above happen, no matter what people protest, we won't improve. You can't make top 4 just beating up dross at Goodison in the second half of the season. If you can't win regularly on the road and compete with your rivals home and away you don't win anything no matter how good your home form is. Koeman has to tick one of the above boxes for me it's as simple as that. If he goes 3 seasons without ticking any of them then I can guarantee no matter how easily we put away the WBAs of this world, how many Lukaku is scoring, how many cheeky dinks Tom Davies is throwing in, we won't have moved forward.

He has to take the next step. Go to the Emirates at the last day and play like we did v Leicester. Go and lay down a marker to a team in disarray, show the players that they can win at these grounds and that he expects more of the same next season.

He has to obliterate plucky little Everton once and for all to be considered a success.
Click to expand...
I'm not demeaning the achievements of moyes far from it, but whereby previously there was the traditional top 4 to gatecrash there is now the top 6, who have vastly superior income streams and finances. It will be a good start to koemans tenure if he could nail a top 6 spot from 11th baring in mind the competition.
 
BlueToff said:
Totally agree except the difference is, Moyes set our glass ceiling.

Not once has Koeman done so.

While he's always been realistic, he's consistently said that we're in the race for top six and has been proven correct.

We're there and there abouts and are in for the most 'exciting' (relatively speaking of course) end to a league season since 13/14.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I'm not happy with the way he set up against Tottenham and Liverpool, but both of those games were away and injuries complicated the Liverpool one for sure. What is great about Koeman is he has learned to smash the teams outside of the top 7. If you can have a considerably decent record against the top 6-7 and beat almost all of the lower opposition like he has been lately, chances are we are in champions league next year. He has proven he can break down the physical teams and the teams that are tough to break down. Can he do it if we don't have Lukaku next season though? That is the biggest question mark.
 
Osamabindiesel said:
Agreed. I'm not happy with the way he set up against Tottenham and Liverpool, but both of those games were away and injuries complicated the Liverpool one for sure. What is great about Koeman is he has learned to smash the teams outside of the top 7. If you can have a considerably decent record against the top 6-7 and beat almost all of the lower opposition like he has been lately, chances are we are in champions league next year. He has proven he can break down the physical teams and the teams that are tough to break down. Can he do it if we don't have Lukaku next season though? That is the biggest question mark.
Click to expand...
Our home form against the top 6 has been respectable. 2 wins, 2 draws and of course only 1 defeat to you know who. However our away form has determined why we haven't seriously been challenging top 4 this season. We have only had 2 draws and 3 defeats. Indeed in all we've only won 4 times away from home all season. This needs to be addressed should we want to mount a realistic top 4 challenge next season.
 

Saint Domingo said:
Two of the 4 steps I've mentioned are small, they're what every other club does all the time. One of the other steps Moyes pulled off. It looks like an impossibly high bar because of the mental block we've had for years but @davek is right, (when he's not pushing his agenda), the bar needs to be this high for Koeman if we want to move forward. This is a good start but no more. Finishing higher than 7th and beating Arsenal would be a change from the norm, but if we finish 7th with no big away wins for all it's promise it is actually in the cold light of day no different to what Moyes did when we put teams away with ease at Goodison in the spring and raved about how Rodwell and Gosling were the future.
Click to expand...
The bar is high for Koeman, he sets it himself and acheives it. His premier league record, when considering what he's had at his disposal V what his opposition was/is, is fantastic. 51 wins in 108 games isn't too shabby. Our previous manager tallied himslef with 80 league wins in 266 games.

The way I look at it, he is doing as well as could've been expected in season 1 from where he picked us up, if you'd of polled fan groups of all 72 league club fans and asked them to name their top 6 this season, I'm certain the lion share would have said the current top 6.

If he wasn't ambitious he wouldn't be here, the reason for that is two fold, A. He'd of bottled the job B. He'd of never been offered it.

I'm not saying you are doing it, but if the only stick left to beat him with is what he may not do/achieve in the future, then that's pretty sound with me.

Outside of a cup run I couldn't have asked for more this season, when being reasonable.
 
ianefc said:
The bar is high for Koeman, he sets it himself and acheives it. His premier league record, when considering what he's had at his disposal V what his opposition was/is, is fantastic. 51 wins in 108 games isn't too shabby. Our previous manager tallied himslef with 80 league wins in 266 games.

The way I look at it, he is doing as well as could've been expected in season 1 from where he picked us up, if you'd of polled fan groups of all 72 league club fans and asked them to name their top 6 this season, I'm certain the lion share would have said the current top 6.

If he wasn't ambitious he wouldn't be here, the reason for that is two fold, A. He'd of bottled the job B. He'd of never been offered it.

I'm not saying you are doing it, but if the only stick left to beat him with is what he may not do/achieve in the future, then that's pretty sound with me.

Outside of a cup run I couldn't have asked for more this season, when being reasonable.
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Completely agree. Cups aside I've got no quibble with him this season. I suspect he is the real deal, I'm just saying if he does any of those 4 points next season then it will confirm him as the real deal for me with tangible evidence that this manager and this team is different to the false dawns of yesteryears.
 
rochdaleblue said:
Our home form against the top 6 has been respectable. 2 wins, 2 draws and of course only 1 defeat to you know who. However our away form has determined why we haven't seriously been challenging top 4 this season. We have only had 2 draws and 3 defeats. Indeed in all we've only won 4 times away from home all season. This needs to be addressed should we want to mount a realistic top 4 challenge next season.
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wow, that's terrible
 
rochdaleblue said:
Our home form against the top 6 has been respectable. 2 wins, 2 draws and of course only 1 defeat to you know who. However our away form has determined why we haven't seriously been challenging top 4 this season. We have only had 2 draws and 3 defeats. Indeed in all we've only won 4 times away from home all season. This needs to be addressed should we want to mount a realistic top 4 challenge next season.
Click to expand...
I think our biggest problem was our huge lull in the beginning of the season, but you aren't wrong. We do need to get more away results. That stretch really hurt our top 4 chances though. Koeman was still trying to figure out his squad at that point.
 

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