Ronald Koeman discussion

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Lanolin said:
I agree, a point at city is a good result and you'd take it 9/10 times.

I also agree it wasn't a 'bad' performance. It wasn't a particularly good one either though if we're honest.

What I take issue with is people making out like it's a great result and tactical masterpiece. It was moyes all over. I have no real issue with that as I liked moyes, but I just find it odd that he was beaten with the top 4 stick for so long and now £300m up the road a new manager is doing the same things and getting the same results, yet now it's brilliant instead of disgraceful.
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The gulf between ours and city's squads is bigger than when moyes was turning up and getting a draw/win. They've had years now of spending hundreds of millions each summer, their team is full of top, top players, and we're still only at the beginning of our transformation. City started their crusade for world domination almost a decade ago, people would do well to remember that.

Koeman sent the correct players on to try and score a second last night, but we just played a bit rubbish in the second half and got punished. Totally different to limping to a 1-1 like last season which was a total freak result, progress for me.
 

Dirty Dutch said:
In the first 5 or 6 games it's all about getting results. We're playing city, chelsea, man utd away and spurs at home. In between we have some Europa league matches. We bought like 7 new players, lost our best player and we still need 2 more players(striker and defender) and yesterday he played Holgate, Davies and Calvert Lewin who're all around 20. Yet people still giving him stick and call him no upgrade on Moyes because we played with 11 against 10 in the second half against arguably the best team of the league. With 10 man they're still having much more individual class. If mourinho would've done this people would say it was a mourinho masterclass etc. And he has much more individual quality than us.

Some people really need to wake up and realise that clubs like city and utd can still spend a lot more and can attract proven worldclass players. We cant do that so we just need to improve every year with players like Keane and pickford and hope they will develop into worldclass players. That needs time. Even if we're spending 100 mil every window it will take years to be on the same level.
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It's not that black and white.

All of that does not change the fact we had a good situation in that game and we didn't capitalise on it because we spent the game sitting too deep with a man up. Again, I've seen that game many times from us and I'd like to see some improvement on that. We are paying big bucks to see an improvement on that.

But, there's time to see if with his own players he can do so. Hopefully so.
 
bicycleheader said:
True, but I would think that 4-0 was a one off given what I have seen of Koeman. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

I don't think Brighton being at home makes a difference to the point I was making in that the general approach to the game doesn't warrant any particular plaudits for the manager. I wasn't arguing his choice of tactics Stev.
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Suppose it depends mate, under OfM we probably would have went gung ho in the same situation and easily lost it 3 or 4-1

Against City, the rs and Arsenal their is a distinct way you should play if you wanna get a result, watch United this season - will guarantee they will play defensive against all 3 of those and look to do what for large parts last night we did. Does he deserve plaudits for it, not really, it just means he isn't incredibly naive
 
CahillsCornerFlag said:
Koeman sent the correct players on to try and score a second last night, but we just played a bit rubbish in the second half and got punished. Totally different to limping to a 1-1 like last season which was a total freak result, progress for me.
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That's a fair enough point. It's possible he did have the intention of getting control of the game but it didn't come off. The fact we still sat way too deep after the subs let me to believe he just altered defensive tactics slightly though.
 

bluestevon said:
Suppose it depends mate, under OfM we probably would have went gung ho in the same situation and easily lost it 3 or 4-1

Against City, the rs and Arsenal their is a distinct way you should play if you wanna get a result, watch United this season - will guarantee they will play defensive against all 3 of those and look to do what for large parts last night we did. Does he deserve plaudits for it, not really, it just means he isn't incredibly naive
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Lets just say I would like him to move a little more along the scale from Pulis to Ossie Ardiles on the Joga Bonita scale. Pulis being 'Rugby' and Ossie being 'lets play 1-4-5'. Let's see what the next 3 league games throw up!
 
bicycleheader said:
It is a work in progress, but the manager is a season in and critical comment is normal enough.

We are the beginning of building a team, but that doesn't mean the manager gets a pass until whenever the 'end' of that building process is.

He will get his 3 seasons minimum, hopefully he can change some of these same old Everton situations that we are all tired of. Like not grabbing a situation like last night's and making the most of it.
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Oh behave yourself.
 
bicycleheader said:
Lets just say I would like him to move a little more along the scale from Pulis to Ossie Ardiles on the Joga Bonita scale. Pulis being 'Rugby' and Ossie being 'lets play 1-4-5'. Let's see what the next 3 league games throw up!
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For me mate, the early part of every season is just about picking up points and momentum, with this many changes to the first team, if we can get the same rough results as last season i won't complain (over the same fixtures) and progress through into the group stage of the EL - minus the bumming away at Chelsea ofc
 

CahillsCornerFlag said:
The gulf between ours and city's squads is bigger than when moyes was turning up and getting a draw/win. They've had years now of spending hundreds of millions each summer, their team is full of top, top players, and we're still only at the beginning of our transformation. City started their crusade for world domination almost a decade ago, people would do well to remember that.

Koeman sent the correct players on to try and score a second last night, but we just played a bit rubbish in the second half and got punished. Totally different to limping to a 1-1 like last season which was a total freak result, progress for me.
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Ah come off it! In the infamous 'knife to a gunfight' game we brought on vellios drenthe and Saha - total cost £0. Last night we brought on 2 players who cost us £70m. If the gap has got bigger, we're doing something drastically wrong.
 
bicycleheader said:
good comment. welcome back
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Youre insisting on putting the manager under pressure. And the squad.

When the reality is in first 5 games we're trying to simply get as many points as possible.

Siggurdson has only just arrived. Pickford and Keane's played 3/4 matches for the club.

Our team won't start truly flying until 5 games in in October.

At the moment we are all about getting as many points as we can to set ourselves up for the season.
 
bluestevon said:
For me mate, the early part of every season is just about picking up points and momentum, with this many changes to the first team, if we can get the same rough results as last season i won't complain (over the same fixtures) and progress through into the group stage of the EL - minus the bumming away at Chelsea ofc
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Agree. If we get 10 -> 12 points in first 5 games that mission is accomplished.

On to the next phase then.

Plus we've still got time this window to make signings.
 
bicycleheader said:
It's not that black and white.

All of that does not change the fact we had a good situation in that game and we didn't capitalise on it because we spent the game sitting too deep with a man up. Again, I've seen that game many times from us and I'd like to see some improvement on that. We are paying big bucks to see an improvement on that.

But, there's time to see if with his own players he can do so. Hopefully so.
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Yes but he tried to change that. In the first 15 min of the second half we played with 3 central defenders against 1 striker. We were a man too short in midfield. It worked untill they made another change. And you could see why we were sitting deep because with players like Jagielka and Baines you cant play with lots of space behind them even when you play against 10 man of city.
We have players like Lookman and Mirallas on the bench. I like lookman but he's giving away posession far too easy so especially against city i can understand why he didn't bring him on. It would be different if we were 1-0 down.

It was just one bad header from Holgate which costs us the 3 points. Otherwise people would have said he outclassed Pep etc.
 

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