Ronald Koeman discussion

[bicycleheader]

For me mate, the early part of every season is just about picking up points and momentum, with this many changes to the first team, if we can get the same rough results as last season i won't complain (over the same fixtures) and progress through into the group stage of the EL - minus the bumming away at Chelsea ofc

In the context of it being early season sure. In the context of the overall approach of our manager....what we have seen so far and what we are going to see in the rest of his time here, I think it's fair comment to wonder is it more of the same. In many matches last season I did have that feeling a lot.

I don't think anything controversial is being said here, not that you personally are overreacting. He may well show us another level before he leaves the club, and win us something whilst doing it, but having had a season now people shouldn't be so touchy to criticism of him. (again not you particularly)

 

[anton66]

The substitutions were needed as Davies was knackered. He and Morgan should have gone off for Gylfi and Lookman. No need to take Williams off as the defence was doing a superb job. The refereeing was awful.

 

[bicycleheader]

Youre insisting on putting the manager under pressure. And the squad.

When the reality is in first 5 games we're trying to simply get as many points as possible.

Siggurdson has only just arrived. Pickford and Keane's played 3/4 matches for the club.

Our team won't start truly flying until 5 games in in October.

At the moment we are all about getting as many points as we can to set ourselves up for the season.

I've seen Koeman at Southampton, and one season here. I am commenting on his general approach.

Of course there is context for it being early season and there being a lot of new players. If it all comes good after a while then his approach in last nights game wont matter so much, however it shouldn't be so difficult for people to read some criticism in the meantime.

Wouldn't you prefer an Everton team to really take hold of a situation like last nights? I would. I'd have preferred a different approach. Again though, hopefully he will show more when he gets his squad settled in.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I've seen Koeman at Southampton, and one season here. I am commenting on his general approach.

Of course there is context for it being early season and there being a lot of new players. If it all comes good after a while then his approach in last nights game wont matter so much, however it shouldn't be so difficult for people to read some criticism in the meantime.

Wouldn't you prefer an Everton team to really take hold of a situation like last nights? I would. I'd have preferred a different approach. Again though, hopefully he will show more when he gets his squad settled in.

His Southampton teams at least won away at top teams. We struggle to win away at all.

 

[bizzaro]

I've seen Koeman at Southampton, and one season here. I am commenting on his general approach.

Of course there is context for it being early season and there being a lot of new players. If it all comes good after a while then his approach in last nights game wont matter so much, however it shouldn't be so difficult for people to read some criticism in the meantime.

Wouldn't you prefer an Everton team to really take hold of a situation like last nights? I would. I'd have preferred a different approach. Again though, hopefully he will show more when he gets his squad settled in.

I'm realistic about what a new team can and can't do.

You're acting like Everton's team is battle hardened and can turn on a dime. To any formation or tactics we want.

Truth is that won't come without games.

When you're talking about a new team.

 

[bluekangaroo]

The substitutions were needed as Davies was knackered. He and Morgan should have gone off for Gylfi and Lookman. No need to take Williams off as the defence was doing a superb job. The refereeing was awful.

Agree with this. But the change sort of worked as City still were less potent attacking after Williams went off. They only scored due to Holgate's poor header, otherwise we'd have won. I was hoping for Lookman, though. Referee was pathetic and should be ashamed of himself. Great job isn't it being an 'elite' (ha!) refereee. Such ability to cause teams to get relegated with your woeful decision making, yet no punishment as a result of it. Dare I saw a video referee would have kept us with 11 men last night. I still think Walker's was 50/50 as his look towards DCL made it appear he was after him.

 

[bicycleheader]

Yes but he tried to change that. In the first 15 min of the second half we played with 3 central defenders against 1 striker. We were a man too short in midfield. It worked untill they made another change. And you could see why we were sitting deep because with players like Jagielka and Baines you cant play with lots of space behind them even when you play against 10 man of city.
We have players like Lookman and Mirallas on the bench. I like lookman but he's giving away posession far too easy so especially against city i can understand why he didn't bring him on. It would be different if we were 1-0 down.

It was just one bad header from Holgate which costs us the 3 points. Otherwise people would have said he outclassed Pep etc.

I wouldn't have said he outclassed anybody if we had held out. I'd have been delighted with the result and most of the performances but I don't think sitting so deep to crowd space is any particularly genius tactic. It's one of the most basic ones, although against the best it needs the players to concentrate for the full 90.

In general you are right, as pushing too high up might have meant Jags and Williams getting punished with their pace. However I think he could have figured out some kind of balance between kamikaze attack and being a man up and not threatening their goal at all.

Hopefully the subs mean he did actually try to get control and come out a bit more, but it just didn't come off. As the same approach may work in another game like this.

 

[blulouie]

Thats 2 points out of a possible 9 for City against us.
1st in Peps career winless against a team for 3 games with a tasty home game against City later this season.
For a team that at the moment is a work in progress.....keep it coming Ronko.

 

[anton66]

Agree with this. But the change sort of worked as City still were less potent attacking after Williams went off. They only scored due to Holgate's poor header, otherwise we'd have won. I was hoping for Lookman, though. Referee was pathetic and should be ashamed of himself. Great job isn't it being an 'elite' (ha!) refereee. Such ability to cause teams to get relegated with your woeful decision making, yet no punishment as a result of it. Dare I saw a video referee would have kept us with 11 men last night. I still think Walker's was 50/50 as his look towards DCL made it appear he was after him.

I think he might get sent to the Championship for a few games to referee. Not as a result of the poor decisions against us though.

 

[bluestevon]

In the context of it being early season sure. In the context of the overall approach of our manager....what we have seen so far and what we are going to see in the rest of his time here, I think it's fair comment to wonder is it more of the same. In many matches last season I did have that feeling a lot.

I don't think anything controversial is being said here, not that you personally are overreacting. He may well show us another level before he leaves the club, and win us something whilst doing it, but having had a season now people shouldn't be so touchy to criticism of him. (again not you particularly)

Fair enough, I'm not shy of criticizing when deserved of the manage mate, just think until a good few months into the season we can't come to any major conclusions though, once the players are bedded in then fair game a 100% it's his team now.

 

[bicycleheader]

I'm realistic about what a new team can and can't do.

You're acting like Everton's team is battle hardened and can turn on a dime. To any formation or tactics we want.

Truth is that won't come without games.

When you're talking about a new team.

After 498 seasons of Moyes and 3 seasons of Martinez I am very wary about us going through the same cycle again with the same excuses. I can already imagine being half way through his third season without looking like topping 7th or winning anything and people are still talking about new players and bedding in and takes time.

A big plus so far this season is I really like all his signings and the regular young starters. It's a bunch of players I can really get behind. I want to see Klassen start chipping in with goals and Sandro scoring free kicks. Sigurdsson reminding us what a decent corner/fk looks like. and most of all Pickford and Keane being confident, technically good AND tough.

 

[zzr45]

Agree with a couple of the shouts in here, taking Williams off was a bit of a poor shout from Ronk. Back 5 was forcing them into long shots, with a back 4 against some exceptionally talented attackers they found space all day long. Frustrating, but hopefully he'll learn from it.

 

[bicycleheader]

Fair enough, I'm not shy of criticizing when deserved of the manage mate, just think until a good few months into the season we can't come to any major conclusions though, once the players are bedded in then fair game a 100% it's his team now.

We will have a fair idea of what we are gonna get from this manager/squad come January.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Ah come off it! In the infamous 'knife to a gunfight' game we brought on vellios drenthe and Saha - total cost £0. Last night we brought on 2 players who cost us £70m. If the gap has got bigger, we're doing something drastically wrong.

Behave, Sigurdsson wasn't remotely fit and Klaassen has literally just joined the league.

They brought on £50m man Sterling who is not only fit but has played in the prem for years, and that's ignoring the two other lads they brought on that cost north of £50m. We also started with Holgate, Davies and DCL, compared to positionally, £50m Walker, £55m De Bruyne and £32m Jesus.

You're actually mad if you're trying to say that their spending over the last 5 years hasn't decimated ours. They are YEARS ahead of us in their development as a squad.

 

[BlueToff]

I wouldn't have said he outclassed anybody if we had held out. I'd have been delighted with the result and most of the performances but I don't think sitting so deep to crowd space is any particularly genius tactic. It's one of the most basic ones, although against the best it needs the players to concentrate for the full 90.

In general you are right, as pushing too high up might have meant Jags and Williams getting punished with their pace. However I think he could have figured out some kind of balance between kamikaze attack and being a man up and not threatening their goal at all.

Hopefully the subs mean he did actually try to get control and come out a bit more, but it just didn't come off. As the same approach may work in another game like this.

Koeman said last night that he wasn't happy with how deep we sat. He was constantly trying to push us up the pitch in the second half as well.

People are also ignoring what Pep did in reaction to our change.

When we initially switched to a 4 at the back we looked threatening - Klaassen was pushing forward well and Gylfi was linking up on the left.

Pep brought on Danilo and Sterling went central. That was the big change. We couldn't deal with Sterling's pace there and that was that.

In an ideal world, I think Koeman should have brought on Kev ahead of Gylfi in that situation, but of course there's no guarantee that'd have worked.