Ronald Koeman discussion

peteblue · August 28, 2017

Barnfred 55 said:
If only.

Koeman fan here mate but I stilll dont agree with his tactics in last two league games and also surprised by some of his team selections.

Hopefully he'll learn from those 2 games and if we bring in the 2 players he wants I think we'll have a squad capable of challenging the top 6, once the new lads have settled and we get some of our injured players back.

You can't seriously be satisfied with our last 3 halves if premier football mate?

I'm never happy when we drop a point or three.....

Efcjake · August 28, 2017

Barnfred 55 said:
I disagree with you on what I'd want mate. If we had the quality players that City, Chelsea and to a lesser degree United have at their disposal, I would say you can afford to chose a way of playing and formation, because you have the quality of player that you can rely on to pull it off most of the time. Probably Spurs too if you look at their starting XI. But you only have to look a Arsenal and Liverpool to see that it doesn't always work for the second tier teams. They try and play the same way all the time and sometimes they get found out.

We don't have the quality of starting XI that the top 6 have, but I believe that we do have a good cross section of skills in our squad now, and I would like us to use these to match the opposition. If everybody was fit and available for selection, I would be very surprised if he played the same XI to play Arsenal away, as he would to play West Brom at home.

All of the chopping and changing of personnel and formations tends to hinder the development of partnerships and chemistry on the pitch.

Maybe you'd rather us be constantly reactive to what is in front of us but I'd like to see us be able to make an impression on matches and be building towards a solid first choice XI like Spurs have. While we might not have the quality they have right now, the point is that is something we should be working towards.

We're not having trouble deciding what the best XI is because we're overwhelmed with choice but because we're not sure how to get the best out of what we've got and that's something that is a bit of an issue for me. It's all great having decent quality options but they have to be able to play together cohesively.

Sure, you want players who can play in different systems to give you options but right now what is our most effective first choice XI and formation?

I would expect a few different answers to that question.

jceverton · August 28, 2017

Kenshin said:
Pretty much. We have changed system again from last season and we can see it in action now even if right now it's not too exciting to watch.

Take Into account here that this is meant to be the start of a long term change at the club so if we aren't challenging for the league by Christmas it isn't the end of the world but if koeman gets his system working then there is a lot more he can do going forward.

Something wrong with the management/player recruitment, in my opinion, if it's going to take that long to kick in. We'll see how all this pans out I guess but I don't share your faith that this is going to work out.

Kenshin · August 28, 2017

jceverton said:
Something wrong with the management/player recruitment, in my opinion, if it's going to take that long to kick in. We'll see how all this pans out I guess but I don't share your faith that this is going to work out.

From what I have seen I think it will work yes. It might not end up being exciting or great to watch but the system does work. It may just need fine tuning replacing defenders in time and adding one or two, sorry for the example, mane players to really threaten down the other end.

Remember when you look at other teams who mass recruited like us, spurs and Liverpool struggled the following year (Liverpool just bought crap and spurs similar to us), Sunderland and QPR fought relegation. So it's not going to work overnight, but 3 years time we could have sandro lookman Davies schneiderlin siggurdson lewen Kenny pickford alone as players taking us to the next level

Barnfred 55 · August 28, 2017

Efcjake said:
All of the chopping and changing of personnel and formations tends to hinder the development of partnerships and chemistry on the pitch.

Maybe you'd rather us be constantly reactive to what is in front of us but I'd like to see us be able to make an impression on matches and be building towards a solid first choice XI like Spurs have. While we might not have the quality they have right now, the point is that is something we should be working towards.

We're not having trouble deciding what the best XI is because we're overwhelmed with choice but because we're not sure how to get the best out of what we've got and that's something that is a bit of an issue for me. It's all great having decent quality options but they have to be able to play together cohesively.

Sure, you want players who can play in different systems to give you options but right now what is our most effective first choice XI and formation?

I would expect a few different answers to that question.

Mate. We don't have the quality of first XI that Spurs have at the moment. We're not even close in my view. Which is why I would rather we pick a team to win/compete in each game we play. What is the most effective line up for one game may not be our most effective for another.

If we ever get to the stage that we have a preferred starting XI that we would select regardless of the opposition, I will be 100% in my element. But we aren't there yet, and until we are we need to make the most of every game and utilise all the assets at our disposal.

I understand where you are coming from. I just don't agree with you. No harm in that mate.

windymiller · August 28, 2017

Paul w said:
Do you think they are going to spend that much and then after half a season say we don't want you ?He is here till the end of the season at least.

Depends on the board's view on the whole net/gross spend debate. If we end up with a big gross spend but a modest net spend then the expectation will be high but the risk in terminating his contract would be relatively low as any successor could be enriched with transfer fund guarantees. I'm not saying he will be sacked, nor am I saying he should be, but I don't share your view that he is untouchable.

CRIMHEAD · August 28, 2017

I love how we use a formation change to just smash City last year as well as lots of different tactics to go on the run we did from January on, and now we are picking on Ronnie for changing tactics to suit the situation. Nice work, guys.

Abraders · August 28, 2017

Efcjake said:
And the reverse of the Sigurdsson questions, if we don't play with wingers then how does Bolasie get on the pitch and why was he bought?

Rooney goes on the bench if a good enough striker comes in and he becomes a 150 grand a week strong dressing room character.

I think bolaise gets in straight up as he's the only player with pace etc. At the very least as an outlet in our away games for the counter!

Paul w · August 28, 2017

windymiller said:
Depends on the board's view on the whole net/gross spend debate. If we end up with a big gross spend but a modest net spend then the expectation will be high but the risk in terminating his contract would be relatively low as any successor could be enriched with transfer fund guarantees. I'm not saying he will be sacked, nor am I saying he should be, but I don't share your view that he is untouchable.

I didn't say he was untouchable.

Efcjake · August 28, 2017

Abraders said:
I think bolaise gets in straight up as he's the only player with pace etc. At the very least as an outlet in our away games for the counter!

But if Bolasie plays you need someone to play wide on the other side to give the team shape some balance. If that happens then that means Sig on the wing I'm afraid or he drops the third center mid to push Sigurdsson into his favoured position in the middle and someone else plays on the left and we go 4-2-3-1.

Abraders · August 28, 2017

Efcjake said:
But if Bolasie plays you need someone to play wide on the other side to give the team shape some balance. If that happens then that means Sig on the wing I'm afraid or he drops the third center mid to push Sigurdsson into his favoured position in the middle and someone else plays on the left and we go 4-2-3-1.

Again, this is why it's a mess!!!

I hope there's something i/we are not seeing. Maybe this hadjuk split player link is the opposite winger. Who knows.

windymiller · August 28, 2017

Paul w said:
I didn't say he was untouchable.

You said he wasn't going anywhere for a season. At least.

Paul w · August 28, 2017

windymiller said:
You said he wasn't going anywhere for a season. At least.

I said unless we were in relagation trouble he will be here for the season that does not equate to untouchable,and I believe he will be here to the end of the season.

windymiller · August 28, 2017

Paul w said:
I said unless we were in relagation trouble he will be here for the season that does not equate to untouchable,and I believe he will be here to the end of the season.

I reckon if we bumbled along in 12th place all season after spending £150-200m on players he'd be under enormous pressure. Doubt we'll find out as 7th or 8th looks pretty straightforward but after spending so much and getting his major targets, particularly if we get a striker of his choosing in, there'll be no more room for calling out the board when results don't go our way or harking back to previous regimes. This team will be RonKo's lock and stock. No room to hide. Hopefully it'll be a success.