Ross Barkley joins Chelsea, er, Villa on loan

[PhilM]

Opinion of him and discussions around a possible return are all moot anyway. I think his imprudent 'liaisons' with that gangster lad's kopite ma has kind of cooked Roscoes Merseyside goose

Personally, the contempt he and his agent showed for the club with how they ensured an increase in their fees and the lowering of ours is more of an issue.

Other players have moved on but the club is usually quite good at gaining the best fee for us; Barkley was different and I can assure you that it didn't go down well.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

He received groans off the fans and not boos. We let a lot slide - all of those promising attacks were he'd be bombing forward, only for the attack to fizzle out because he chose the wrong option. It got to the point were it became a bit of a joke. He didn't have the mentality to deal with the justified criticism.

If he had half a footballing brain and a backbone he'd be an amazing player.

These are all things that can be developed though. Begs the question why no one at the club thought of doing so.

 

[PhilM]

These are all things that can be developed though. Begs the question why no one at the club thought of doing so.

You can to an extent improve aspects of a player's game through training and drills, but certain parts such as intuition and work ethic are an inherent quality.

While it was evident that Ross had a natural footballing ability, on many occasions you could see that his decision making simply wasn't to the required standard.

Equally, tenacity and guile are attributes that I simply can't see Ross ever possessing in significant quantities, even if a coach was able to improve them.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You can to an extent improve aspects of a player's game through training and drills, but certain parts such as intuition and work ethic are an inherent quality.

While it was evident that Ross had a natural footballing ability, on many occasions you could see that his decision making simply wasn't to the required standard.

Equally, tenacity and guile are attributes that I simply can't see Ross ever possessing in significant quantities, even if a coach was able to improve them.

I'm not sure I agree. Phil Neville and others from his generation have spoken many times about the role Cantona played in getting them to work more professionally. It's been widely reported that Wenger had a similar role with the players at Arsenal.

In cycling terms, the British Cycling team have invested considerably in the mental aspect of the sport and there are a wide range of sports now investing in tools for improving spatial awareness and decision making as well as resilience and conscientiousness. Now you could say Ross is too daft or something to do any of this, but again, he's been with us since he was a kid and so I do wonder if he was allowed to coast on his natural ability by those at the club rather than working on vital areas that he wasn't so good at.

I mean Ross is one of a number of players stretching all the way back to Kenny who appeared to have tremendous natural gifts as players, but have lacked the mental aptitude to reach the very top. Heck, you could argue in some ways that Rooney also falls into that camp. Given that so many players have failed to fulfil their evident potential, it begs the question why the club don't do more to rectify it and address the mental side of the game more.

 

[Kenshin]

I'm not sure I agree. Phil Neville and others from his generation have spoken many times about the role Cantona played in getting them to work more professionally. It's been widely reported that Wenger had a similar role with the players at Arsenal.

In cycling terms, the British Cycling team have invested considerably in the mental aspect of the sport and there are a wide range of sports now investing in tools for improving spatial awareness and decision making as well as resilience and conscientiousness. Now you could say Ross is too daft or something to do any of this, but again, he's been with us since he was a kid and so I do wonder if he was allowed to coast on his natural ability by those at the club rather than working on vital areas that he wasn't so good at.

I mean Ross is one of a number of players stretching all the way back to Kenny who appeared to have tremendous natural gifts as players, but have lacked the mental aptitude to reach the very top. Heck, you could argue in some ways that Rooney also falls into that camp. Given that so many players have failed to fulfil their evident potential, it begs the question why the club don't do more to rectify it and address the mental side of the game more.

I have always thought that, especially under martinez. He was never coached to get better but instead told to go out and just play. Given the young age and guaranteed starting place , the discipline and mental aspect of football never really got told to him. He didn't need to care about working on his game because each week he was in the team no matter what. I think the biggest shame is that he had no success here to back that up, if we had won a cup with him in the team I could understand the attitude but he never really wanted to kick on and seemed to believe the hype he had created.

A massive shame to see him out of sorts at such a young age, he should have been going to Chelsea to walk in their team not look out of place

 

[TippEverton]

Funny, that. The Chelsea supporter I work with reckons he’s has a really good pre season and was decent tonight.

Bitter much?

Decent against Arsenal, haha, honestly, he's not watching the games mate.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Funny, that. The Chelsea supporter I work with reckons he’s has a really good pre season and was decent tonight.

Bitter much?

Pfft, you do know Everton fans know more about footy than anyone, even more about a team than it’s own fans who watch their team week in, week out.

 

[Rob17896]

You might have a point Re. The disorganised mess thing. But I got the impression that Barkley was a pure instinct player and the less he tried to overthink things the better he would be. But conforming to a plan and knowing when to play the percentage ball sometimes was beyond him.

You are spot on. The more he was taught/instructed the worse it got. Although Rooney stayed brilliant for years he was never quite as brilliant after being shown how to play by Ferguson for a couple of seasons. Sometimes just leave alone.

 

[PhilM]

I'm not sure I agree. Phil Neville and others from his generation have spoken many times about the role Cantona played in getting them to work more professionally. It's been widely reported that Wenger had a similar role with the players at Arsenal.

In cycling terms, the British Cycling team have invested considerably in the mental aspect of the sport and there are a wide range of sports now investing in tools for improving spatial awareness and decision making as well as resilience and conscientiousness. Now you could say Ross is too daft or something to do any of this, but again, he's been with us since he was a kid and so I do wonder if he was allowed to coast on his natural ability by those at the club rather than working on vital areas that he wasn't so good at.

I mean Ross is one of a number of players stretching all the way back to Kenny who appeared to have tremendous natural gifts as players, but have lacked the mental aptitude to reach the very top. Heck, you could argue in some ways that Rooney also falls into that camp. Given that so many players have failed to fulfil their evident potential, it begs the question why the club don't do more to rectify it and address the mental side of the game more.

I understand your point and perhaps I was slightly simplistic in my point, as rightly anyone can make some improvements in areas through training and tools.

However, there's a marked difference between being a professional sportsman and reaching proficiency in an area: the latter is sometimes simply beyond people.

For example, Phil Neville may have been a consummate professional, who reached the peak of his own potential, but he was never going to be a great player.

Admittedly, his passing may have improved and he may have made developments with his creativity but there's a glass ceiling - the inherent qualities we posses.

Furthermore, as an individual you have to be receptive to such support and be willing to make the necessary changes; these come back to the work ethic etc.

Again these can be changed but from experience they're traits that become engrained over a long period of time, so it's more often than not difficult to reverse.

Personally, I simply can't see Ross gaining the decision making skills needed to utilise his true potential, nor can I see him having the determination to reach it.

 

[The_Street_End]

If he had the actual mental strength of Rooney or even Gerrard. He'd be some player.
But he hasn't, he's a fart.

I loved watching him play and was in his corner most of the time

Make no mistake though, he ratted us really bad. And it's just a shame really. Not angry, just proper disappointed in everybody involved.

Sound like his dar here ffs

 

[dholliday]

@PhilM your ability to write every post in perfect lines is outstanding!

 

[larbert toffee]

@PhilM your ability to write every post in perfect lines is outstanding!

View attachment 48539

If only Ross applied the same mental aptitude as Phil.

 

[PhilM]

@PhilM your ability to write every post in perfect lines is outstanding!

View attachment 48539

Thank you. The originally methodology behind it was to ensure I was being concise/succinct as there's a lot of waffle on here, which I often struggle to read.

From that, it eventually turned into a habit and so to say I've become typecast and I do it naturally now; I'm sure this actually annoys some people but hey ho.

 

[Rugby Toffee]

Another player of what could have been. he joins a long line of players , who never really fulfilled their potential.
But maybe he will find a new start somewhere.

 

[dholliday]

i like it phil; annoying would be something like not capitalizing, american spelling, weird punctuation or the quoted post appearing below the reply

Thank you. The originally methodology behind it was to ensure I was being concise/succinct as there's a lot of waffle on here, which I often struggle to read.

From that, it eventually turned into a habit and so to say I've become typecast and I do it naturally now; I'm sure this actually annoys some people but hey ho.