2017/18 Ross Barkley

[Thomasc]

Deulofeu, Barkley, Dowell - our most gifted attacking players outside Lukaku - and Koeman pushes the first out the door, the second toward the exit and punts the last one on loan (and he advised Lukaku to leave). If they were all here now and available we'd still be capable of playing a whole different kind of game of football to the one we're forced to play.

These are the reasons I'll detest that Dutchman forever.

He not only wasted the best part of £200M on a load of tripe (a once in a generation war chest), but he also got shut of the best we had.

He's destroyed us as an organisation for years to come.

Some of that may be true, some of it as usual is just over exaggerated tosh, especially the last part.

You also seem to be basing your whole findings on this season, conveniently forgetting the season he steadied the ship again after the absolute mess his predecessor left behind.

 

[davek]

Some of that may be true, some of it as usual is just over exaggerated tosh, especially the last part.

You also seem to be basing your whole findings on this season, conveniently forgetting the season he steadied the ship again after the absolute mess his predecessor left behind.

No he didn't. We were trash for most of that season. We played some dire stuff and we only started getting a few results once Koeman's preferred game plan of knocking it 50 yards to Bolasie was taken away from him as a Plan A. We barely shifted the dial back to 'normality' last season from the two previous underperforming seasons. We only ended up in Europe because of a freak set of circumstances surrounding qualification.

The feller was here for two seasons and built nothing - the reverse: he took us apart from the inside out.

...and you're offering mitigating circumstances for that idiot. Unreal.

 

[MickA]

No he didn't. We were trash for most of that season. We played some dire stuff and we only started getting a few results once Koeman's preferred game plan of knocking it 50 yards to Bolasie was taken away from him as a Plan A. We barely shifted the dial back to 'normality' last season from the two previous underperforming seasons. We only ended up in Europe because of a freak set of circumstances surrounding qualification.

The feller was here for two seasons and built nothing - the reverse: he took us apart from the inside out.

...and you're offering mitigating circumstances for that idiot. Unreal.

Watching that Southampton away game last year was unbelievable. For all Martinez failings we were transformed into a hoofball team in under 3 months by Koeman. I wouldn't have cared if we'd have got rid of him then.

 

[Thomasc]

No he didn't. We were trash for most of that season. We played some dire stuff and we only started getting a few results once Koeman's preferred game plan of knocking it 50 yards to Bolasie was taken away from him as a Plan A. We barely shifted the dial back to 'normality' last season from the two previous underperforming seasons. We only ended up in Europe because of a freak set of circumstances surrounding qualification.

The feller was here for two seasons and built nothing - the reverse: he took us apart from the inside out.

...and you're offering mitigating circumstances for that idiot. Unreal.

No love, that's just your take on it.

He moved us up the table where we finished in a respectable position considering the mess he was left, he improved us defensively and we got back to winning at home. We were that "dire" we trounced Man City 4-0 and did Leicester in a very entertaining game at home 4-2, as well as sticking 6 past the likes of Bournemouth and from January onwards showed some real good form.

You seem maybe just a little too bitter to admit it possibly.

I wonder why?

 

[davek]

Watching that Southampton away game last year was unbelievable. For all Martinez failings we were transformed into a hoofball team in under 3 months by Koeman. I wouldn't have cared if we'd have got rid of him then.

I think Koeman may have grudgingly got the benefit of the doubt for about two months after the City game. But the vast majority never took to him: not just his arrogance but his appreciation of football - it always looked ropey. He's been a manager living off his playing career for a couple of decades now.

 

[kenada_blue]

No he didn't. We were trash for most of that season. We played some dire stuff and we only started getting a few results once Koeman's preferred game plan of knocking it 50 yards to Bolasie was taken away from him as a Plan A. We barely shifted the dial back to 'normality' last season from the two previous underperforming seasons. We only ended up in Europe because of a freak set of circumstances surrounding qualification.

The feller was here for two seasons and built nothing - the reverse: he took us apart from the inside out.

...and you're offering mitigating circumstances for that idiot. Unreal.

Think a lot forget about this. We bypassed the midfield just to hit Bolasie and Rom.

The minute Bolasie went out, we put Davies on and pushed Ross further up...we actually played football and had upturn in form.

Nothing against Bolasie. But just shows how bad a manager Koeman actually was.

 

[NCLBlue]

Deulofeu, Barkley, Dowell - our most gifted attacking players outside Lukaku - and Koeman pushes the first out the door, the second toward the exit and punts the last one on loan (and he advised Lukaku to leave). If they were all here now and available we'd still be capable of playing a whole different kind of game of football to the one we're forced to play.

These are the reasons I'll detest that Dutchman forever.

He not only wasted the best part of £200M on a load of tripe (a once in a generation war chest), but he also got shut of the best we had.

He's destroyed us as an organisation for years to come.

Absolutely - it is devastating to the club to lose all these gems, and there's even more players that we will lose due to our lack of progress under this 'project'.

Stifling kids talents and off they go to flourish elsewhere...

 

[davek]

Absolutely - it is devastating to the club to lose all these gems, and there's even more players that we will lose due to our lack of progress under this 'project'.

Stifling kids talents and off they go to flourish elsewhere...

He'd have left Dowell where he is if he'd have stayed here. I'm pretty sure of that. At least we know Dowell is safe from his disastrous (and spiteful) decision making...and maybe Barkley too, fingers crossed.

 

[Thomasc]

Think a lot forget about this. We bypassed the midfield just to hit Bolasie and Rom.

The minute Bolasie went out, we put Davies on and pushed Ross further up...we actually played football and had upturn in form.

Nothing against Bolasie. But just shows how bad a manager Koeman actually was.

Yep, he was that "bad" he finished 7th, 6th and 7th in his 3 seasons in the premier league. Whilst having to rebuild the side every season in doing so.

I appreciate things went bad at the end and I am not going to defend the state he has left side in, but the state of the knee jerking on here in truly Geordie esque.

He could of and might have turned it around, we will never know. He did it at Southampton after a bad start and being knocked out of the EL in the qualifier.

 

[davek]

Think a lot forget about this. We bypassed the midfield just to hit Bolasie and Rom.

The minute Bolasie went out, we put Davies on and pushed Ross further up...we actually played football and had upturn in form.

Nothing against Bolasie. But just shows how bad a manager Koeman actually was.

I had to laugh at how he'd state after every game about "the good football we want to play"...and never attempted to put a good footballing team together...even with the aid of £200M.

A plague he was on this club.

 

[davek]

Yep, he was that "bad" he finished 7th, 6th and 7th in his 3 seasons in the premier league. Whilst having to rebuild the side every season in doing so.

I appreciate things went bad at the end and I am not going to defend the state he has left side in, but the state of the knee jerking on here in truly Geordie esque.

He could of and might have turned it around, we will never know. He did it at Southampton after a bad start and being knocked out of the EL in the qualifier.

Stop defending the feller who pretty much walked us into the wilderness.

FFS.

 

[APN_EFC]

No he didn't. We were trash for most of that season. We played some dire stuff and we only started getting a few results once Koeman's preferred game plan of knocking it 50 yards to Bolasie was taken away from him as a Plan A. We barely shifted the dial back to 'normality' last season from the two previous underperforming seasons. We only ended up in Europe because of a freak set of circumstances surrounding qualification.

The feller was here for two seasons and built nothing - the reverse: he took us apart from the inside out.

...and you're offering mitigating circumstances for that idiot. Unreal.

It's no coincidence that RM's first year, and RK's first year were both successful. When we lurch from one manager to the other, and they are so different in style, the players are in a transition where they instinctively follow the old habits, while learning new good ones as well.
2013/14: Solid but limited Moyes and 'Attacking' but bad off the ball Martinez = 5th place.
2016/17: Attacking, lose, directionless Martinez + Organised, Solid boring Koeman = 7th place.

I agree that RK dismantled the best attacking hopes, and we were lucky to finish 7th. Some of the play we were criticised for in the 2 11th place finishes - slow, sideways build ups, weak possession football and fragile defence - were still there in RK's first year, but somehow Lukaku and to a lesser extent, Barkley, Lookman, Davies, Bolasie, Coleman at various times won a game here and there.
It's a shame the 2 SF cup runs are discounted as successes, but I agree the playing style had gone stale.
I think we underestimate 2 things -
1 - the possibility that managers are line managed at board level - and sometimes should be reminded of the playing philosophy or 'project'
2 - the influence of good coaches. RM is arguably doing well at Belgium because of an excellent playing staff plus Thierry Henry. His team of coaches is dire. I hope BIg Dunc is actually good, but we should be scouting around for modern, technical coaches who put emphasis on fitness, tactics and getting the best out of players. RK was more a fantasy football or FIFA type manager .

 

[Thomasc]

Stop defending the feller who pretty much walked us into the wilderness.

FFS.

No mate, I am not Geordie knee jerk mentality orientated like others, I only post the truth.

Anyway, this is a thread about Barkley, who is still a snake.

 

[APN_EFC]

He'd have left Dowell where he is if he'd have stayed here. I'm pretty sure of that. At least we know Dowell is safe from his disastrous (and spiteful) decision making...and maybe Barkley too, fingers crossed.

Dowell escaped!

I know this is hindsight talking, but I really would have just invested in Barkley and Dowell, and saved the Klassen and Sigurdsson money. This was always a transition year anyway, so why not take a risk on Ross and Dowell in a growing team, and put an excellent CF in front and a proper CM behind, and we would have been ok. Rooney could have been a mentor and occassional alternate for both the no.10 and new no.9

 

[Thomasc]

Dowell escaped!

I know this is hindsight talking, but I really would have just invested in Barkley and Dowell, and saved the Klassen and Sigurdsson money. This was always a transition year anyway, so why not take a risk on Ross and Dowell in a growing team, and put an excellent CF in front and a proper CM behind, and we would have been ok. Rooney could have been a mentor and occassional alternate for both the no.10 and new no.9

Ross was injured and wants away anyway, Dowell thought not ready for the prem. So even the benefit of having hindsight isn't working for you is it really?