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2017/18 Ross Barkley

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Thomasc said:
Ross was injured and wants away anyway, Dowell thought not ready for the prem. So even the benefit of having hindsight isn't working for you is it really?
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I never said it was a benefit lol
Nothing is working for anyone, but it helps pass the time until we appoint Unsy as manager, with Rooney and Big Dunc as his assistants and Jose Baxter as club captain.
 
APN_EFC said:
It's no coincidence that RM's first year, and RK's first year were both successful. When we lurch from one manager to the other, and they are so different in style, the players are in a transition where they instinctively follow the old habits, while learning new good ones as well.
2013/14: Solid but limited Moyes and 'Attacking' but bad off the ball Martinez = 5th place.
2016/17: Attacking, lose, directionless Martinez + Organised, Solid boring Koeman = 7th place.

I agree that RK dismantled the best attacking hopes, and we were lucky to finish 7th. Some of the play we were criticised for in the 2 11th place finishes - slow, sideways build ups, weak possession football and fragile defence - were still there in RK's first year, but somehow Lukaku and to a lesser extent, Barkley, Lookman, Davies, Bolasie, Coleman at various times won a game here and there.
It's a shame the 2 SF cup runs are discounted as successes, but I agree the playing style had gone stale.
I think we underestimate 2 things -
1 - the possibility that managers are line managed at board level - and sometimes should be reminded of the playing philosophy or 'project'
2 - the influence of good coaches. RM is arguably doing well at Belgium because of an excellent playing staff plus Thierry Henry. His team of coaches is dire. I hope BIg Dunc is actually good, but we should be scouting around for modern, technical coaches who put emphasis on fitness, tactics and getting the best out of players. RK was more a fantasy football or FIFA type manager .
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I completely agree. Great post mate.

It's maddening these undulations. I can see why people feel a DoF is the way to go in ironing out these fluctuations in style and method. But I dont think it's a necessary post, tbh.

I look at Swansea for inspiration in that they had a clearly defined style they kept for years - possibly Monk's over-physical game was the beginning of the end for it. And that, as far as I'm aware, was down to clear headed thinking at boardroom level in their appointments and what they must have insisted on in interview with managers. Swansea kept their nerve and kept on a certain defined path with minimum fuss and performed well in excess of expectations because of the seamless change form manager to manager. That's what we should be aiming for.

Going back to Martinez: the answer wasn't then to throw the baby out with the bathwater; the answer was to replace Martinez with a similar manager with a similar approach but with more attention to small things in defence like set piece work. But our board went the other way and for another style...a style that goes away from what all other age groups in the organisation had adopted under the previous set up.

Madness.
 
Thomasc said:
No mate, I am not Geordie knee jerk mentality orientated like others, I only post the truth.

Anyway, this is a thread about Barkley, who is still a snake.
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I don't think there's anything "Geordie knee jerk" about it when it's November and we're in a relegation battle playing some of the most dreadful football in the league with an unbalanced mess of a squad. Koeman can't take all the blame, Steve Walsh has to be apportioned some, but Koeman has to take his massive share. As does even Martinez for wasting the potential of 4 really good young players by having us in the bottom half and them all wanting to leave, that's kind of where our decline started.
 
Thomasc said:
Yep, he was that "bad" he finished 7th, 6th and 7th in his 3 seasons in the premier league. Whilst having to rebuild the side every season in doing so.

I appreciate things went bad at the end and I am not going to defend the state he has left side in, but the state of the knee jerking on here in truly Geordie esque.

He could of and might have turned it around, we will never know. He did it at Southampton after a bad start and being knocked out of the EL in the qualifier.
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I think the proof is that he took over a Pochettino side and added.

He dismantled an everton side, spent more than any manager we've ever had, and left us fighting relegation.

The feller can't build a side. That's been labelled before by players he's managed.

We're also not Southampton. We also spent £200mill.

His aim in my eyes would be to win a trophy and finish higher than 7th based on that spending.

Never in a million years would he have done that
 


davek said:
Deulofeu, Barkley, Dowell - our most gifted attacking players outside Lukaku - and Koeman pushes the first out the door, the second toward the exit and punts the last one on loan (and he advised Lukaku to leave). If they were all here now and available we'd still be capable of playing a whole different kind of game of football to the one we're forced to play.

These are the reasons I'll detest that Dutchman forever.

He not only wasted the best part of £200M on a load of tripe (a once in a generation war chest), but he also got shut of the best we had.

He's destroyed us as an organisation for years to come.
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Not convinced Del ever had the physicality to regularly deliver in the Prem though.

Dowell needed a loan. The lad goes missing too often to be a regular starter just yet in an already struggling side. He would have been at best a bit-part player this season and I have no issues at all that he is at Forest, playing well, scoring goals and getting regular minutes in a demanding league. That will be good for him.

Ross is injured. Whether he wants out or not now remains to be seen. But he wouldn't have played anyway.

The players we did get aren't the problem as such.

Pickford and Keane are both good young players.

Doubts obviously over Sandro and Klaassen and neither have settled, while Gylfi has struggled. Rooney was still a sensible move but hasn't been used well imo (i.e. too much, shoehorned in to games etc).

The players we didn't get - another defender, a striker - which in all fairness Koeman repeatedly said he wanted and certain people failed to deliver - are the major issues.

tactically, Koeman was useless and had to go
 
BlueToff said:
Not convinced Del ever had the physicality to regularly deliver in the Prem though.

Dowell needed a loan. The lad goes missing too often to be a regular starter just yet in an already struggling side. He would have been at best a bit-part player this season and I have no issues at all that he is at Forest, playing well, scoring goals and getting regular minutes in a demanding league. That will be good for him.

Ross is injured. Whether he wants out or not now remains to be seen. But he wouldn't have played anyway.

The players we did get aren't the problem as such.

Pickford and Keane are both good young players.

Doubts obviously over Sandro and Klaassen and neither have settled, while Gylfi has struggled. Rooney was still a sensible move but hasn't been used well imo (i.e. too much, shoehorned in to games etc).

The players we didn't get - another defender, a striker - which in all fairness Koeman repeatedly said he wanted and certain people failed to deliver - are the major issues.

tactically, Koeman was useless and had to go
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As usual from you a reasoned and well thought out post instead of a bitter tirade against koeman. Think Dowell is doing rather well at Forest and the experience will benefit him...would love to see him return and become a regular with us. Mate of mine who watches Forest raves about him..
 
BlueToff said:
Not convinced Del ever had the physicality to regularly deliver in the Prem though.

Dowell needed a loan. The lad goes missing too often to be a regular starter just yet in an already struggling side. He would have been at best a bit-part player this season and I have no issues at all that he is at Forest, playing well, scoring goals and getting regular minutes in a demanding league. That will be good for him.

Ross is injured. Whether he wants out or not now remains to be seen. But he wouldn't have played anyway.

The players we did get aren't the problem as such.

Pickford and Keane are both good young players.

Doubts obviously over Sandro and Klaassen and neither have settled, while Gylfi has struggled. Rooney was still a sensible move but hasn't been used well imo (i.e. too much, shoehorned in to games etc).

The players we didn't get - another defender, a striker - which in all fairness Koeman repeatedly said he wanted and certain people failed to deliver - are the major issues.

tactically, Koeman was useless and had to go
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You not heard mate? he has set the club back 20 years apparently lol

You clearly are not up with times with these types of sensible posts.
 
Thomasc said:
You not heard mate? he has set the club back 20 years apparently lol

You clearly are not up with times with these types of sensible posts.
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He definitely did a lot of damage in undoing the good work of his first season in the space of about 6 weeks, like, but still - not all the problems are because of Ronnie.

We're a very poor side at the moment. Unsworth is massively out of hid depth and now our only half-decent striker who wasn't even in any of our thoughts until September looks set to miss two more crucial games.

It's a shambles. But it's not all Koeman's doing.
 
BlueToff said:
He definitely did a lot of damage in undoing the good work of his first season in the space of about 6 weeks, like, but still - not all the problems are because of Ronnie.

We're a very poor side at the moment. Unsworth is massively out of hid depth and now our only half-decent striker who wasn't even in any of our thoughts until September looks set to miss two more crucial games.

It's a shambles. But it's not all Koeman's doing.
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first rule of leadership, everything is your fault
 

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