Rugby World Cup 2023

[Walken]

Wasn't an experiment done quite a few years ago where they took a top team from each code, and they played each other at each other's code. The Union team won at Union, and the League team won at League.

There's good footage on YouTube of Wigan in their pomp destroying all before them in a 7s tournament

 

[roydo]

Wasn't an experiment done quite a few years ago where they took a top team from each code, and they played each other at each other's code. The Union team won at Union, and the League team won at League.

It was Bath and Wigan. Thing is, Wigan walloped Bath at League, but Bath limped to a single digit win at Union. It is fair to acknowledge that it was pre Pro Union days. That would be a huge difference, pro versus amateur players.

 

[widnesblue]

Wasn't an experiment done quite a few years ago where they took a top team from each code, and they played each other at each other's code. The Union team won at Union, and the League team won at League.

They’ve done it a few times. Wigan vs Bath in the 90’s was the main one. Wigan best Bath in League 82-6. Bath beat Wigan 44-19 in Union. Do remember going St. Helens vs Sale at Knowsley road. Was first half Union, second half League. Think Sale won that 31-29.

 

[roydo]

They’ve done it a few times. Wigan vs Bath in the 90’s was the main one. Wigan best Bath in League 82-6. Bath beat Wigan 44-19 in Union. Do remember going St. Helens vs Sale at Knowsley road. Was first half Union, second half League. Think Sale won that 31-29.

I could have sworn the Union game was close. Memory eh?

 

[Milk]

And yet two or possibly even 3 of the best coaches in union are from league

 

[widnesblue]

I could have sworn the Union game was close. Memory eh?

The Union game between Wigan and bath was a lot closer than the league game. Do remember the Twickenham crowd booing Bath cos of the constant rucking and mauling. Where Wigan just passed the ball around. Don’t forget too, Wigan had a few players from Union playing for them just for that game. Think Bath had finished up their season and Wigan had just started. Didn’t Wigan play at the sevens too?

The most embarrassing thing was Bradford in that sevens competition. Literally played Saints the night before, travelled down to London after it, broke down and still walked it easily enough. Surprised a lot more league lads haven’t gone over to Union just to play sevens.

 

[roydo]

The Union game between Wigan and bath was a lot closer than the league game. Do remember the Twickenham crowd booing Bath cos of the constant rucking and mauling. Where Wigan just passed the ball around. Don’t forget too, Wigan had a few players from Union playing for them just for that game. Think Bath had finished up their season and Wigan had just started. Didn’t Wigan play at the sevens too?

The most embarrassing thing was Bradford in that sevens competition. Literally played Saints the night before, travelled down to London after it, broke down and still walked it easily enough. Surprised a lot more league lads haven’t gone over to Union just to play sevens.

Dont recall the sevens at all. I guess for safety, Wigan would have needed some specialists in the union scrum. Front row most likely.

I read Martin Johnsons bio, its very good, and he talks of the massive difference the ex league returnees made to one of his Lions tours. The Quinnels iirc. "They knew how to prepare, train, and play. For their living".

 

[COYBL25]

Steroid pumped up? Seriously? Although now, they are all massive, it’s one of the reason the game is struggling because the players are far too big. It’s took away from their skill, pace and speed and just added more power. I’ll give you that.

So what are union players then? Fat, pumped up, juiced up love a game of pile on each other til then can kick it? Union more than league, always has, hence why it’s known as kick and clap. Imagine them forwards in Union running at league lads? They’d get absolute pin wheeled from lads at the age of 16 never mind the pros. Just think to, England had to rely on the kicking of a kid who grew up playing league and his dad a former GB international who is a highly rated union coach, wasn’t good enough to coach in super league and had to coach on the lower leagues of league.

Do you know why a lot of league fans think union is terrible? A certain generation, probably 25 to older have seen rugby league played at a much better level than it is now. They’ve seen free flowing rugby, seen tries that union players wish they could score. They’ve seen players create things, open up play. Throw the ball around, use skills to set up tries. There is so much more could go on. The is a reason union has recruited so many league players to coach in Union. Jon Clarke who was an average league player is currently head of Australian rugby strength and conditioning, he was at England. Remember when England Rugby Union national team had to go train with Leeds Rhinos to learn the basics of how to catch a ball, tackle, kick and run with the ball? Yes England Rugby had to go to Leeds a league team to learn that. Imagine that? The establishment had to go to the north to learn how to play. Also, I’m 36, when I was growing up playing both codes, league was s head of union in every way, take the international game away from Union, the sport folds and becomes league standard.

I’ve seen a hooker (forward in league) score over 40 tries in a season, be surprised if there is that many tries in a group stage in the World Cup.

Union is better nowadays because of the influx of league. Simple. League has gone terrible because there is no money in the sport due to the absolute mismanagement of the sport over 4 decades.

I say this as a parent of a lad who’s played Union for over ten years.

League players are faster, fitter, stronger, more aggressive, can throw, catch and pass better than Union players.

And rugby union is still riddled with nepotism, the old school tie / club brigade.

Any youth rugby union team, that has league lads playing in their team, will invariably win comfortably.

One of the lads who plays in his team, is in Saint Helen’s reserves.

Pre season he did 3 strength and conditioning sessions every week for a month with Saints, without picking up a ball. This level of training simply does not happen in union.

 

[woomy]

Dont recall the sevens at all. I guess for safety, Wigan would have needed some specialists in the union scrum. Front row most likely.

I read Martin Johnsons bio, its very good, and he talks of the massive difference the ex league returnees made to one of his Lions tours. The Quinnels iirc. "They knew how to prepare, train, and play. For their living".

Yeah I'm a Wigan'er, we did compete in and win the 7's
I was at both those games for the dual code and to be honest the feeling at the time was if Wigan had been given some proper warm up games before the Bath match, it would have been closer still. It was the little things like quick penalties that undid Wigan.

 

[Toffeeslam]

The Union game between Wigan and bath was a lot closer than the league game. Do remember the Twickenham crowd booing Bath cos of the constant rucking and mauling. Where Wigan just passed the ball around. Don’t forget too, Wigan had a few players from Union playing for them just for that game. Think Bath had finished up their season and Wigan had just started. Didn’t Wigan play at the sevens too?

The most embarrassing thing was Bradford in that sevens competition. Literally played Saints the night before, travelled down to London after it, broke down and still walked it easily enough. Surprised a lot more league lads haven’t gone over to Union just to play sevens.

Weren’t those in the days were union players just turned professional so really couldn’t compete in league rules and were better in the union rules as you would expect.

With professionalism now in place for union for decades now it would be interesting to see a x code game again.

It would be a lot closer than in the 90’s in terms of points deferential

 

[widnesblue]

Weren’t those in the days were union players just turned professional so really couldn’t compete in league rules and were better in the union rules as you would expect.

With professionalism now in place for union for decades now it would be interesting to see a x code game again.

It would be a lot closer than in the 90’s in terms of points deferential

To be fair though, although League was classed as professional, the players still worked full time jobs. So that’s an absolute myth. League lads who had to miss work, would get get compensated by their respected clubs in order to play.

Union would win both games now or atleast push the league lads a lot closer now in a league game. Maybe it would be different in Australia but over it would be certainly much closer. The huge influx of league in union over here in the past 20 years has brought that game on to be much more attacking.

 

[widnesblue]

I say this as a parent of a lad who’s played Union for over ten years.

League players are faster, fitter, stronger, more aggressive, can throw, catch and pass better than Union players.

And rugby union is still riddled with nepotism, the old school tie / club brigade.

Any youth rugby union team, that has league lads playing in their team, will invariably win comfortably.

One of the lads who plays in his team, is in Saint Helen’s reserves.

Pre season he did 3 strength and conditioning sessions every week for a month with Saints, without picking up a ball. This level of training simply does not happen in union.

Great summary. I see it with my youngest who plays Union compared to my oldest lad who plays league and is on St. Helens books.

I do think Union coaching now is a lot more fun than what league coaches have them doing. Union focuses more on skill compared to league who focus more on the strength and conditioning and been well drilled. My eldest lad is 14 and there isn’t any fun involved in it for him, my youngest lad is 9 and he loves having a mess about and throwing the ball around. When I played both, it was the other way round. Be more drilled in Union, where in league we’d focus on throwing the ball around cos you learn to tackle at the age of 5/6.

Interesting isn’t it? Most of the time I’m on the wind up when comparing the sports cos they are so different but when league was at its best, Union didn’t compare from a watching point of view.

Union will always be classed as an elitist sport and think they’re better, especially the older generation. When we’d play Union in the off season, we wasn’t really welcomed at the Wids cos we was levels above the Union lads. We’d actually win them things,They actually put a stop to it because the older generation didn’t like it. Sad isn’t it? I went a school where in year 7, we played in the daily mail cup (a Union tournament) got to twickenham, made it to the semis and drew 0-0 and they gave it to the opposite team on possession based. The looks we got cos we all turned up in Lacoste trackie tops and rockport boots. They didn’t want to let us in the club house after the game. Crazy looking back.

 

[COYBL25]

Great summary. I see it with my youngest who plays Union compared to my oldest lad who plays league and is on St. Helens books.

I do think Union coaching now is a lot more fun than what league coaches have them doing. Union focuses more on skill compared to league who focus more on the strength and conditioning and been well drilled. My eldest lad is 14 and there isn’t any fun involved in it for him, my youngest lad is 9 and he loves having a mess about and throwing the ball around. When I played both, it was the other way round. Be more drilled in Union, where in league we’d focus on throwing the ball around cos you learn to tackle at the age of 5/6.

Interesting isn’t it? Most of the time I’m on the wind up when comparing the sports cos they are so different but when league was at its best, Union didn’t compare from a watching point of view.

Union will always be classed as an elitist sport and think they’re better, especially the older generation. When we’d play Union in the off season, we wasn’t really welcomed at the Wids cos we was levels above the Union lads. We’d actually win them things,They actually put a stop to it because the older generation didn’t like it. Sad isn’t it? I went a school where in year 7, we played in the daily mail cup (a Union tournament) got to twickenham, made it to the semis and drew 0-0 and they gave it to the opposite team on possession based. The looks we got cos we all turned up in Lacoste trackie tops and rockport boots. They didn’t want to let us in the club house after the game. Crazy looking back.

My lad recently had trials for Lancs Senior Colts.

What he didn’t know was that Sale had just let a load of their Colts go and most of them where at the trials for Lancs.

What he also didn’t know was that the head coach at the trials, was part of the Sale youth set up.

Guess who got most of the Lancs places, despite not being as good as a lot of the club lads ?????

 

[widnesblue]

My lad recently had trials for Lancs Senior Colts.

What he didn’t know was that Sale had just let a load of their Colts go and most of them where at the trials for Lancs.

What he also didn’t know was that the head coach at the trials, was part of the Sale youth set up.

Guess who got most of the Lancs places, despite not being as good as a lot of the club lads ?????

Absolutely shocking isn’t it? It’s always been the same. Certain clubs also get special funding from England Rugby so certain players get picked. Hopefully it doesn’t discourage your lad and he still enjoys playing. He’ll get there eventually and playing for Lancs isn’t all that.

Sale are a disgusting club, a lad I played with. Played few first team games for Sale and was treated badly by them. Sale also tried to bride about 7 of us to ditch our scholarship clubs and pay us £30,000 to not play league and go full time into union. Two agreed and never recieved a penny, went back playing league and clubs had replaced them with younger players they could develop. Both would of made it professionally in league too.

 

[COYBL25]

Absolutely shocking isn’t it? It’s always been the same. Certain clubs also get special funding from England Rugby so certain players get picked. Hopefully it doesn’t discourage your lad and he still enjoys playing. He’ll get there eventually and playing for Lancs isn’t all that.

Sale are a disgusting club, a lad I played with. Played few first team games for Sale and was treated badly by them. Sale also tried to bride about 7 of us to ditch our scholarship clubs and pay us £30,000 to not play league and go full time into union. Two agreed and never recieved a penny, went back playing league and clubs had replaced them with younger players they could develop. Both would of made it professionally in league too.

Where you aware that Sale also “ advise “ boys entering ther academy at 16, of the “ right “ schools to go to, that would “ assist “ them with their place at the academy ?

All of the schools are fee paying schools.

It’s as bad if not worse than footy academies.

My lads own words - “ at least the lads in footy academies deserve to be there, not which school you go to or who your dad knows “