Russia

[tsubaki]

So what happened to the other 3 hostages, out of interest?

the myth goes that they were driven 150 yards away from the Soviet Embassy and released

 

[peteblue]

I see that having slagged off Cameron and the UK regarding the 'bomb', Russia has now cancelled all flights to Egypt........

 

[dandydan]

So what happened to the other 3 hostages, out of interest?

Soon got released strangely enough.

 

[ToffeeDoug]

...As for "the Russians will be chasing shadows", that does miss the point - yes, the lone wolf / small cell inspired by IS will be hard to stop, but there are three major cities and several thousand square miles that they can safely blow the [Poor language removed] out of instead.

Accepted, and no doubt Russian will bomb the 'easy' targets, but if Isis continues to fracture into small cells, infiltrating weak security areas, tourist spots and the rest, then what? They will be untouched by the bombing and Isis, and let's face it they are clever bastards, will evolve and spread.

 

[tsubaki]

Accepted, and no doubt Russian will bomb the 'easy' targets, but if Isis continues to fracture into small cells, infiltrating weak security areas, tourist spots and the rest, then what? They will be untouched by the bombing and Isis, and let's face it they are clever bastards, will evolve and spread.

They probably won't; the franchise nature of that scene will mean that some other group will arise (just as IS took over from al-Qaeda once Bin Laden was killed) and the cycle will continue, until the grievances that underpin all of it get solved or the world discovers an energy supply that isn't oil and their backers run out of money.

 

[peteblue]

They probably won't; the franchise nature of that scene will mean that some other group will arise (just as IS took over from al-Qaeda once Bin Laden was killed) and the cycle will continue, until the grievances that underpin all of it get solved or the world discovers an energy supply that isn't oil and their backers run out of money.

What are their grievances btw.......

 

[ToffeeDoug]

They probably won't; the franchise nature of that scene will mean that some other group will arise (just as IS took over from al-Qaeda once Bin Laden was killed) and the cycle will continue, until the grievances that underpin all of it get solved or the world discovers an energy supply that isn't oil and their backers run out of money.

But the splitting and franchising and fracturing must come with Isis' blessing and active encouragement, as it helps their wider anti-Western stance to continue and grow. The more franchising and splitting, particularly in new areas, the harder it is to track and tackle?

 

[arminisgod]

Unless they send 500,000 troops they will have no more success than Obama.........

A few nukes might help like

 

[magicjuan]

They probably won't; the franchise nature of that scene will mean that some other group will arise (just as IS took over from al-Qaeda once Bin Laden was killed) and the cycle will continue, until the grievances that underpin all of it get solved or the world discovers an energy supply that isn't oil and their backers run out of money.

IS didn't take over, they were created to replace Al qaeda, supplied by the west, nurtured by the west and de facto acting for western power's interests.
The west needs a destabilised middle east, the economy depends on it.

 

[tsubaki]

But the splitting and franchising and fracturing must come with Isis' blessing and active encouragement, as it helps their wider anti-Western stance to continue and grow. The more franchising and splitting, particularly in new areas, the harder it is to track and tackle?

Nah. What happens is that some group forms, gets a bit of success and performs a spectacular attack. It then attracts funding and gets bigger, capable of better attacks etc. As long as it has success, it keeps getting money and recruits. Once it stops getting success, other groups compete for the funding, the manpower etc until the original group fades and new groups take over.

What are their grievances btw.......

There are loads of them - for a start, political dissent in the region has been massively stamped on for the past seventy years, with only the mosque as a venue where there can be some public discussion of what is going on. Even when the people have tried western-style democracy it has been an abject failure, either because of massive corruption (Maliki in Iraq) or because the powers that be have pissed all over the result because they didn't like it (Hamas in Palestine in 2006, Morsi in Egypt). No-one in their right mind would propose that now, which leaves only violence (which gets you paid), leaving or going along with things.

IS didn't take over, they were created to replace Al qaeda, supplied by the west, nurtured by the west and de facto acting for western power's interests.
The west needs a destabilised middle east, the economy depends on it.

This implies that there is far more intelligence going on at the top of the West than there in fact is. The one strategic aim from the West that can be identified from the idiocy of Iraq is that PNAC thought they could just bimble in, take over and then have cheap oil for the next fifty years. All of Western policy since then has been trying to repair that mistake, which is impossible because it was so massive and so utterly wrong in all respects. You can perhaps ascribe more aims to the Saudis, but even then have mishandled things so badly that they now have the biggest threat to their existence living next door, and they both armed and paid them to be there.

 

[dholliday]

20,000 chavs stuck overseas, not the worst scenario I could imagine. My heart goes out to the Russian families though, that side of the story has barely been touched.

If the dead were Westerners the media would be all over those sympathy candles. Tells you a lot about how the western media propagandise against Russia.

I hope you're not suggesting that the leader of the free world and most powerful man on the planet is a bit of a wimp.....

He's an absolute coward. Drone-bombed untold thousands of people, vast majority completely innocent. Act of a coward. If he wasn't able to influence that policy, then he's a yellow waste of space.

I say that as someone who likes him otherwise and supports almost all his US domestic policies.

 

[dholliday]

Nah. What happens is that some group forms, gets a bit of success and performs a spectacular attack. It then attracts funding and gets bigger, capable of better attacks etc. As long as it has success, it keeps getting money and recruits. Once it stops getting success, other groups compete for the funding, the manpower etc until the original group fades and new groups take over.



There are loads of them - for a start, political dissent in the region has been massively stamped on for the past seventy years, with only the mosque as a venue where there can be some public discussion of what is going on. Even when the people have tried western-style democracy it has been an abject failure, either because of massive corruption (Maliki in Iraq) or because the powers that be have pissed all over the result because they didn't like it (Hamas in Palestine in 2006, Morsi in Egypt). No-one in their right mind would propose that now, which leaves only violence (which gets you paid), leaving or going along with things.



This implies that there is far more intelligence going on at the top of the West than there in fact is. The one strategic aim from the West that can be identified from the idiocy of Iraq is that PNAC thought they could just bimble in, take over and then have cheap oil for the next fifty years. All of Western policy since then has been trying to repair that mistake, which is impossible because it was so massive and so utterly wrong in all respects. You can perhaps ascribe more aims to the Saudis, but even then have mishandled things so badly that they now have the biggest threat to their existence living next door, and they both armed and paid them to be there.

quality post that.

 

[magicjuan]

Nah. What happens is that some group forms, gets a bit of success and performs a spectacular attack. It then attracts funding and gets bigger, capable of better attacks etc. As long as it has success, it keeps getting money and recruits. Once it stops getting success, other groups compete for the funding, the manpower etc until the original group fades and new groups take over.



There are loads of them - for a start, political dissent in the region has been massively stamped on for the past seventy years, with only the mosque as a venue where there can be some public discussion of what is going on. Even when the people have tried western-style democracy it has been an abject failure, either because of massive corruption (Maliki in Iraq) or because the powers that be have pissed all over the result because they didn't like it (Hamas in Palestine in 2006, Morsi in Egypt). No-one in their right mind would propose that now, which leaves only violence (which gets you paid), leaving or going along with things.



This implies that there is far more intelligence going on at the top of the West than there in fact is. The one strategic aim from the West that can be identified from the idiocy of Iraq is that PNAC thought they could just bimble in, take over and then have cheap oil for the next fifty years. All of Western policy since then has been trying to repair that mistake, which is impossible because it was so massive and so utterly wrong in all respects. You can perhaps ascribe more aims to the Saudis, but even then have mishandled things so badly that they now have the biggest threat to their existence living next door, and they both armed and paid them to be there.

Agree it is an irredeemable situation, but like all situations driven by ego and greed it is never clearly thought out, but that doesn't stop them repeating the same mistakes by the same means time and time again.

The follow a Hollywood mentality.

 

[Wat Tyler]

20,000 chavs stuck overseas, not the worst scenario I could imagine. My heart goes out to the Russian families though, that side of the story has barely been touched.

You snobby biff

 

[Jeff Jones]

What are the chances of Russia getting really serious with getting rid of IS?