Tricky Trevor 7
Player Valuation: £1m
Hate Russians , hate Russia , bomb them all
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Russia
- Thread starter summerisle
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magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
Deterrent? If what you say is true it's not going very well is it?
Maybe we should spend it on children's education and sick old people instead?
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
It is the number of planes on board and the weapon loads that they can carry which has to taken into account, never mind the flight deck ship is a rust bucket,.
Need to step back and consider what are Russia's (Putin's) ambitions? They are IMO trying to project their might and secure areas around to use that will further their ambitions. The only reason support is given to Assad is to get an east med base on land and water. Just like the Crimea was to secure a base for the Crimean Sea like wise with east Ukraine to bolster that and give them selves control of more territory.
AS the Baltic states, yes they are under pressure again because Russia would like to control that a part of the sea which gives access to their ports and to project themselves further west. However we are under NATO sending more equipment to Estonia.
It could also be said that this is to divert home opinion of the poor state of Russia. Remember Putin now controls all the media inRussia, there is no freedom just like in the days of the Soviet.
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
If that was not there, a few things.
Russia would have no fear of starting anything and they have just upgraded their missile system, apparently you do not mind that.
If Trident is done away with we would lose all that engineering expertise and knowledge just like we can now not build nuclear power stations.
So if push came to shove what of education then and old people, say if Russia decides to annex the Baltic States you are happy that because education and old people are being taken care of.
But clearly you do not give a jot about that.
Confidently sailing through the Mediterranean and not far from the likes of France, Turkey, Egypt and Israel; all who'll be somewhat antagonised.
There SU-33s and MIG-29s will obviously now play a part in the Syrian conflict, but I doubt that's their primary aim - it's just a justifiable motive.
In reality, it is a shot across the bows of NATO and it's major-allies that they are able to impose their strength in their opponents backyard.
With regards to our nuclear deterrent, it is incredibly important that we do not simply look at the current situation as measuring its need.
We've already seen Russia's growing desire to expand its theatre of power and you've also got China continuing to expand militarily.
The deterrent will already be an imposing threat to the likes of Russia; if they (or others) continue to war-monger then it'll work further.
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
You seem to have taken a huge leap of assumption there.
Russia aren't alone in developing new weapons technology, those who you would consider allies against Russia have been developing weapons too. Look at America's 'defence' budget, the declared one, and defense from what exactly, retaliation?
I care immensely about the loss of innocent lives or liberties. The answer isn't war. For you to support the spending of such huge amounts on weaponry as opposed to the welfare of people who have no involvement in 'diplomatic relations' is tantamount to admission that the global economy is locked in a dependency on perpetual war, because it will never stop until it's exhausted life beyond the point of sustainability.
It is not 'stupid' or less caring to be concerned about all life being protected, not just those within nationalised borders. The concept of 'them v us'is due to constant propaganda, propaganda that is being ramped up at an ever increasing pace, calling for division and the identifying of a ready made enemy on a scale not seen since McCarthy and the whole 'reds under the bed' era.
None of this is territorial it is economic and the cost is being borne by innocent lives and the stability of life itself.
TheFinnFan
Finners
Sweden has increased their military presence in their biggest Island in Gulf of Bothnia (Gotland) and at the same time our biggest island Ahvenanmaa (autonony) is demilitarized by international laws. Finland is so naive. Or our politicians are. We people understand this but politicians say those laws protect that Island. Idiots. When the crap hits the fan Ruskies invade that Island in a blink of an eye.
Should talk more to the Russian s this painting them as the bogey man just allows Putin to feed a load of paranoid rubbish to the people, like or loath him he knows how to play his cards well.
We should have helped them and welcomed them more when they tried to throw the shackles of communism off.
We should have helped them and welcomed them more when they tried to throw the shackles of communism off.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
This is just Russia trying to appear relevant. NATO is only concerned when it wants new budgets from the members. If NATO were to send a dozen US aircraft carrier groups backed up with the bits and pieces that the rest of us have to 'exercise' in the Black Sea then that would be an aggressive show of force, this aged Soviet era carrier group is only a threat to the environment with the crap it's spewing out.....always remember, NATO send ships to sea as well.....
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Nonsense mate, sorry but you missed my point. My case for spending on Trident is to preserve jobs, livelihoods, expertise and knowledge that for me is the foremost priority.
The preservation of jobs has to be the foremost consideration for the welfare of our citizens a point that both Corbyn and McDonnell do not see or wish to exercise a blind eye to.
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
Though they have spoken of replacement industries being invested in, ones that don't threaten our existence.
There are other ways of preserving livelihoods. What would happen to that expertise if the weapons were used?
Toffeelover
Player Valuation: £80m
Oh yes and could not name or indicate when and how many let alone the wage level or what type of jobs. Neither did anyone of your faves indicate how the expertise, skills and knowledge would be replaced.
Come off the Corbyn band wagon Mate and face reality.
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
You see, your mistake is that you assume I'm on some bandwagon. These are my beliefs, not ones I've picked up from some propaganda rhetoric in a leaflet or a soundbite from a broadcast, these are long held and rationalised.
To say I have faves (sic) is disingenuous. Tbh, it's quite insulting too.
Do you believe there is no alternative, employment wise, that can be devised, planned and projected, to create an alternative to making WMD? Do you believe we should hold WMD regardless of an economic argument? Do you accept that a capitalist argument for spending on 'defence' creates a dependency on conflict?
These people you argue who will have employment protected, do they not have children, health concerns too? And when the coffers dry up and everything is cut to the bone is it rational to have poorly educated children, sick people unable to get treatment and old people living out their days in abject misery, while we have an arsenal of very shiney bombs, submarines and an ill equiped army plus a navy consisting of two tugs and a liferaft.
The economics don't stand up, it isn't investment, it's siphoning of funds away from where they are needed.
TheFinnFan
Finners
Russia is nothing but rogue state with nukes.
Arteta2391
Player Valuation: £30m
Russia just unveiled a nuclear missile nicknamed "Satan 2". Putin's response? using Dr. Evil's signature move of placing his pinky near the corner of his mouth while saying "excellent".
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