Sam Allardyce

[MickA]

I dont underestimate him at all. He's a good organiser and man manager. But he's very limited in his method. He has one style of attacking play and it's to use battering ram forwards to excess. It's primitive and eventually useless against all but other backward thinking coaches.

Any spells of decent football you see at the moment is when we get a goal up and from players who can pretty much only play that way. That would change very quickly if Allardyce were given 2/3 windows to get shut of some and hire his own players.

This is one of the main reasons I was against him getting the job. He cleared Newcastle of their better players in a window replacing them with grafters and it's a salient point that the managers who follow him have to deal with the fallout.

 

[Lanolin]

but it is to detract from what he has done you are saying that what he's done is what most respectable managers could have done. When in fact what he has done is pretty remarkable, taken us from the worst team to the team with the best run of results in the league other than City. and to say, 'anyone could beat Huddersfield Swansea Newcastle' is just wrong they are not 'gimme' games, there are no such in the PL. And if you weren't fearing relegation after the run of form we had til Sam took over, then I think you must have been confusing Everton with another team

Again you're taking it way out of context. I said many managers could do the same, not 'most respectable managers'. You're seeing offence where there is none. Allardyce has done well since he came in, so has Moyes since taking over West Ham, and Hodgson since taking over Palace, and Puel since taking over Leicester. It's simply ridiculous to suggest nobody else could have done what he has, and that's all I'm saying.

'The run of form before Sam took over' saw us take 7 points from 5 games under Unsworth. There are 10 teams who have taken less than 7 points from their last 5 PL games. It's not relegation form, it wasn't then and it isn't now. We weren't ever 'the worst team'. That's just a fact, you're trying to argue against facts with your gut feeling that we were doomed, and a load of hyperbole, it doesn't work.

Maybe saying 'gimme' was a bit harsh but look at the form of Huddersfield and Swansea. Huddersfield hadn't scored in 8 away games, including losing 4-0 to Bournemouth, and were coming off a 5-0 defeat in London 3 days earlier. Swansea were bottom of the league and had lost their last 5 away games.Nothing in our recent home form suggested we would lose those games whoever was in charge, absolutely nothing.

 

[davek]

I disagree. he recruited them, they are all outstanding talents, throw Campo in there as well. Cahill. It's just he couldn't afford to recruit such players when he had W Ham Palace and Sunderland and so cut his cloth. And more importantly, he can handle big egos. Look at the way Rooney is playing, he kept Anelka happy for two years, and Diouf, who else has done that?

There's no argument he is a good man manager, you're pushing at an open door on that issue.

But Allardyce has never been known to be fussy about building teams that play in an attractive manner and he's never won anything.

 

[davek]

This is one of the main reasons I was against him getting the job. He cleared Newcastle of their better players in a window replacing them with grafters and it's a salient point that the managers who follow him have to deal with the fallout.

He'll do what he did elsewhere in that respect, which is why I'm convinced he wont get that opportunity at Everton. He'll be gone this summer, imo. There's no way he's been given 18 months. That's just a face saver.

 

[davek]

Hmmm

This isn't the case though?

I'm not saying he's an amazing coach - he isn't.

But what he does do is utilise the squad he has available. At Bolton, when they had Okocha etc, they played good footy because the players enabled that.

At West Ham, he had to get them out of the Championship and then find a way to stabilise them in the Prem - he did that.

Barring England, this is the best squad he's had to work with. Look at the goals we've scored so far under him.

Bar the Liverpool penalty, none have come from hoof balls, and two have come from passing moves as slick and incisive as some of the stuff we got under Martinez in 13/14.

Allardyce will be happy to work with what he has. He hasn't got a 'type' as such - it depends on what the team needs.

He's been here 5 games and I'm seeing more direct football from Everton than I've seen since early-Moyes period.

I think there are some who are desperate to convince themselves that SA is a frustrated top level coach never handed the tools to do the great job he's capable of. That's a mistaken belief, imo.

 

[CrustySack]

I don't see the logic in people saying we should give Big Sam next season as well. Where is the long term plan? Why wait to implement a long term plan? Allardyce is not and will never be part of a long term plan.

We should be thinking about getting a long term manager in at the earliest opportunity. Why give Allardyce another season to continue his blueprint when a new manager will come in and tear it up?

 

[bluestevon]

This is one of the main reasons I was against him getting the job. He cleared Newcastle of their better players in a window replacing them with grafters and it's a salient point that the managers who follow him have to deal with the fallout.

I suppose playing devil's advocate the following could be said mate.

Taking over a club with a few decent players and not much money and who are expected to be involved at the bottom end all season, you have two options, try to ride it out by adding one or two players that funds allow and hope you have enough quality, OR raise funds by selling the better players in order to bring in players who you believe are capable of keeping you above the drop.

At us - maybe either the funds are available - OR funds are able to be brought in by not selling better players due to us having in general a large squad with a few valuable players on the fringes who can be flogged on.

Using the second method - he 'trims' the squad without effecting the overall better quality players, uses that to then add either 'grafters' to add a bit of grit to the talent, OR bring in one or two players that suit which way he wants to play.

It ultimately comes down to what his motives are and what his short or longer term goal is with the club (or indeed if he has any future longer term), what all of us with the huge doubts about the man have to hope for, is that he sees us as his one and last chance to actually achieve something more than what his reputation has penned him as - otherwise if we get the normal modus operandi of BFS we need to be very worried.

Either way, January will be the window into what it is store for us as a club

 

[BlueToff]

He's been here 5 games and I'm seeing more direct football from Everton than I've seen since early-Moyes period.

I think there are some who are desperate to convince themselves that SA is a frustrated top level coach never handed the tools to do the great job he's capable of. That's a mistaken belief, imo.

But what is wrong with 'direct' football?

City play direct football. Getting the ball from front to back quickly is how to do it.

I'm not disagreeing on your second point, but I'd much rather see 'direct' football than the alternative - which has been proven to be utter tosh.

 

[davek]

But what is wrong with 'direct' football?

City play direct football. Getting the ball from front to back quickly is how to do it.

I'm not disagreeing on your second point, but I'd much rather see 'direct' football than the alternative - which has been proven to be utter tosh.

All good teams have the option open to them of going long. But there's a world of difference to knocking it aimlessly long all the time in the general direction of a royal blue shirt and, say, De Bruyn picking out a pin point pass every so often to Sane's feet while he's on the run.

 

[bluestevon]

He'll do what he did elsewhere in that respect, which is why I'm convinced he wont get that opportunity at Everton. He'll be gone this summer, imo. There's no way he's been given 18 months. That's just a face saver.

Only way i see him seeing out 18 months is one of a couple of ways mate.

1. He massively overachieves and either wins the FA Cup, or somehow manages to get us finishing higher than we have the last 3 seasons and actually gets us into the 'TOP SIXXXXXXXXX', neither looks more than a very very remote chance tbf, so unlikely to effect any decision.

2. Moshiri decides to keep him at the club for 'stability' whilst he clears out the other areas of the club which ultimately are hamstringing us, CEO, Chairman and various other areas not fit for purpose throughout the club, that would at least make sense why you wouldn't want instability throughout all areas if that happened. You could see a way that makes sense to not change a stable area whilst doing so, ultimately though no real sign that Moshiri is planning that right now anyway, so again unlikely.

 

[Kev50]

Again you're taking it way out of context. I said many managers could do the same, not 'most respectable managers'. You're seeing offence where there is none. Allardyce has done well since he came in, so has Moyes since taking over West Ham, and Hodgson since taking over Palace, and Puel since taking over Leicester. It's simply ridiculous to suggest nobody else could have done what he has, and that's all I'm saying.

'The run of form before Sam took over' saw us take 7 points from 5 games under Unsworth. There are 10 teams who have taken less than 7 points from their last 5 PL games. It's not relegation form, it wasn't then and it isn't now. We weren't ever 'the worst team'. That's just a fact, you're trying to argue against facts with your gut feeling that we were doomed, and a load of hyperbole, it doesn't work.

Maybe saying 'gimme' was a bit harsh but look at the form of Huddersfield and Swansea. Huddersfield hadn't scored in 8 away games, including losing 4-0 to Bournemouth, and were coming off a 5-0 defeat in London 3 days earlier. Swansea were bottom of the league and had lost their last 5 away games.Nothing in our recent home form suggested we would lose those games whoever was in charge, absolutely nothing.

So you’re saying Everton weren’t in relegation form before he was announced as manager? It was just like last year was it, a couple of wins and we’d have Been ok.
Well, that team I was watching this season was the worst I’ve seen ever, and that includes the relegation dogfights we were involved in. We were in big trouble, and now we are not, and that is because Allardyce has done a remarkable job in turning things around.

 

[davek]

Only way i see him seeing out 18 months is one of a couple of ways mate.

1. He massively overachieves and either wins the FA Cup, or somehow manages to get us finishing higher than we have the last 3 seasons and actually gets us into the 'TOP SIXXXXXXXXX', neither looks more than a very very remote chance tbf, so unlikely to effect any decision.

2. Moshiri decides to keep him at the club for 'stability' whilst he clears out the other areas of the club which ultimately are hamstringing us, CEO, Chairman and various other areas not fit for purpose throughout the club, that would at least make sense why you wouldn't want instability throughout all areas if that happened. You could see a way that makes sense to not change a stable area whilst doing so, ultimately though no real sign that Moshiri is planning that right now anyway, so again unlikely.

Stability argument is the only one that cuts ice. It's a good one to make because of the need to retain PL status while getting this stadium scheme off the ground. However, I think just about anyone with competency can achieve that, and for the pound of flesh we're led to believe Allardyce is exacting we could find a competent manager who can get more out of a burgeoning crop of young - potentially star - players and the handful of established first team players we have.

It was a case of any port in a storm when Moshiri went back for Allardyce. It was a desperate move and it'll be ended asap. IMO.

 

[blueblue]

We have just seen the back of two highly regarded managers in Martinez and Koeman. They were supposed to move the club forward and help us break the infamous glass ceiling. Between them they spent vast amounts of money on players... amounts previous managers, including Moyes, could not even dream about.

They didn't break the ceiling they managed to lower it..... and I still read posts on here that Allyrdyce is a one dimensional manager and has no long term vision or play.


I DON'T CARE.
I am fed up reading so much [Poor language removed] on here about the football we should be playing, the manager we should be appointing, the players we should be signing.... it's all nonsense.

I just want to win games and I don't care how we do it or the name of the person in charge when we do it.

Come back to me when we get a Guardiola, Mourinho, Simeone as manager.

 

[davek]

I don't see the logic in people saying we should give Big Sam next season as well. Where is the long term plan? Why wait to implement a long term plan? Allardyce is not and will never be part of a long term plan.

We should be thinking about getting a long term manager in at the earliest opportunity. Why give Allardyce another season to continue his blueprint when a new manager will come in and tear it up?

Yup.

Kenny, Lookman, Dowell, Holgate, Davies, DCL, Baningime - they all need bringing through in the next 12 months, and for the life of me I dont see Allardyce as the man to do that job.

 

[davek]

We have just seen the back of two highly regarded managers in Martinez and Koeman. They were supposed to move the club forward and help us break the infamous glass ceiling. Between them they spent vast amounts of money on players... amounts previous managers, including Moyes, could not even dream about.

They didn't break the ceiling they managed to lower it..... and I still read posts on here that Allyrdyce is a one dimensional manager and has no long term vision or play.


I DON'T CARE.
I am fed up reading so much [Poor language removed] on here about the football we should be playing, the manager we should be appointing, the players we should be signing.... it's all nonsense.

I just want to win games and I don't care how we do it or the name of the person in charge when we do it.

Come back to me when we get a Guardiola, Mourinho, Simeone as manager.

It's not the difference between good and bad football so much as stressing the difference between getting by and building something.