2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[blueboy72]

I fear it’s not just one or two positions. It’s a tactical jigsaw that needs a lot of new pieces.

We had a good attacking fullback in Digne, however he got torn apart when playing alongside slow centrebacks and being left one on one because slow midfielders can’t get across to cover.

I fear if we swap Mykolenko out for a new fb unless we address the other areas then we’re just leaving a LB who might not be as good defensively in one on ones.

We need a new James McCarthy type midfielder who can drop in to cover the flank whilst a wide player gets forward. We also need another quick CB and RB to go with the new left back so we can play a higher line, or they could recover to cover more space when the LB gets exposed further up the pitch.

First season under Martinez was some of the best examples of this. Coleman flew forward and McCarthy tucked in. Baines flew forward and Distin could cover the entire left side knowing that Barry had the intelligence to drop back. McCarthy had probably filled the gap already. Both fullbacks were lightning as well and so were Jagielka/Stones playing the other CB. Every single player in the 11 apart from Barry and Pienaar had pace to burn. That’s how you play a high line, cover transitions, unleash lightening counter attacks, press the opposition, have them stepping off you in fear of being beaten.

When 1-11 have no pace, the converse is all true, players step on us knowing we can’t run behind them, they squeeze a high line, we compress to close gaps, we play a low line to help defenders, we struggle to cover gaps without leaving others elsewhere to be exploited.

the reboot has to include getting a couple of central midfielders who can really put it about getting up and down the pitch with pace, and a wide player with a goal threat. At least then we could play the midfield a bit higher and have a threat on the counter.

Another McCarthy my god your standards get lower by the day

 

[blueboy72]

McNeill on the right?

No he will play Ndaiye right like he did prior to McNeil’s injury

 

[Saint Domingo]

Another McCarthy my god your standards get lower by the day

A fully fit McCarthy was head and shoulders above any current midfielder we have by a long way. Under Koeman he had us holding our own against Klopp’s midfield until he got injured, Barry came in and we completely surrendered the game.

The fact you don’t recognise this is very telling.

 

[Neiler]

I fear it’s not just one or two positions. It’s a tactical jigsaw that needs a lot of new pieces.

We had a good attacking fullback in Digne, however he got torn apart when playing alongside slow centrebacks and being left one on one because slow midfielders can’t get across to cover.

I fear if we swap Mykolenko out for a new fb unless we address the other areas then we’re just leaving a LB who might not be as good defensively in one on ones.

We need a new James McCarthy type midfielder who can drop in to cover the flank whilst a wide player gets forward. We also need another quick CB and RB to go with the new left back so we can play a higher line, or they could recover to cover more space when the LB gets exposed further up the pitch.

First season under Martinez was some of the best examples of this. Coleman flew forward and McCarthy tucked in. Baines flew forward and Distin could cover the entire left side knowing that Barry had the intelligence to drop back. McCarthy had probably Barry’s gap in midfield already. Both fullbacks were lightning as well and so were Jagielka/Stones playing the other CB. Every single player in the 11 apart from Barry and Pienaar had pace to burn. That’s how you play a high line, cover transitions, unleash lightening counter attacks, press the opposition, have them stepping off you in fear of being beaten.

When 1-11 have no pace, the converse is all true, players step on us knowing we can’t run behind them, they squeeze a high line, we compress to close gaps, we play a low line to help defenders, we struggle to cover gaps without leaving others elsewhere to be exploited.

the reboot has to include getting a couple of central midfielders who can really put it about getting up and down the pitch with pace, and a wide player with a goal threat. At least then we could play the midfield a bit higher and have a threat on the counter.

That’s a brilliant analytical post mate, honestly that’s given loads to think about, I hadn’t considered, beyond we just need this in that position.

We didn’t know how good we had it with McCarthy and Barry that season, the full back too.

 

[blueboy72]

A fully fit McCarthy was head and shoulders above any current midfielder we have by a long way. Under Koeman he had us holding our own against Klopp’s midfield until he got injured, Barry came in and we completely surrendered the game.

The fact you don’t recognise this is very telling.

Yes that’s why gana went to psg for 30mil remind me who
McCarthy played for
He would be perfect for dyche another headless chicken, runs around and tackles but crap on the ball.
And Barry was a class above him too, don’t look at one game mate,
Maybe look at their careers ffs

 

[Saint Domingo]

Yes that’s why gana went to psg for 30mil remind me who
McCarthy played for
He would be perfect for dyche another headless chicken, runs around and tackles but crap on the ball.
And Barry was a class above him too, don’t look at one game mate,
Maybe look at their careers ffs

The Idrissa Gueye who went to PSG didn’t have a handful of injury free seasons in his entire career.

McCarthy wasn’t great on the ball but as you continuously fail to comprehend football is a two way game. For the exact same reason Osman Pienaar Arteta all brilliant on the ball could get bullied by bigger stronger faster players. Half the game is what you do off the ball and you completely refuse to acknowledge this.

Anyone with a brain can look at what happened in 13/14 when McCarthy got injured and how much Barry’s class counted for the team in the next two seasons when McCarthy wasn’t along side him.

 

[Saint Domingo]

That’s a brilliant analytical post mate, honestly that’s given loads to think about, I hadn’t considered, beyond we just need this in that position.

We didn’t know how good we had it with McCarthy and Barry that season, the full back too.

The 13/14 line up was brilliant and the real shame is how quickly it fell apart. We didn’t heed the lessons that season had taught us and went back to favouring slower players in all our recruitment.

 

[blueboy72]

The Idrissa Gueye who went to PSG didn’t have a handful of injury free seasons in his entire career.

McCarthy wasn’t great on the ball but as you continuously fail to comprehend football is a two way game. For the exact same reason Osman Pienaar Arteta all brilliant on the ball could get bullied by bigger stronger faster players. Half the game is what you do off the ball and you completely refuse to acknowledge this.

Anyone with a brain can look at what happened in 13/14 when McCarthy got injured and how much Barry’s class counted for the team in the next two seasons when McCarthy wasn’t along side him.

The drop off in 14/15-15/16 had nothing to do With McCarthy being injured it was down to Martinez being a terrible manager.
If you really think McCarthy is better than Barry then let’s just end it there

 

[Neiler]

The 13/14 line up was brilliant and the real shame is how quickly it fell apart. We didn’t heed the lessons that season had taught us and went back to favouring slower players in all our recruitment.

Always felt that McCarthys injuries were a huge contributor mate, looking back on that squad it was brilliant.

In a way it was also Martinez philosophey - the adjustment to trying to move it from direct with pace and aggression to a more possession based style in his second year, the recruitment disimproved from his first season on.

 

[Saint Domingo]

The drop off in 14/15-15/16 had nothing to do With McCarthy being injured it was down to Martinez being a terrible manager.
If you really think McCarthy is better than Barry then let’s just end it there

Didn’t say McCarthy was better. They’re different. Barry had time and space on the ball because of McCarthy, without him he didn’t, got rushed, got ran through, couldn’t cover the ground needed in defence.

Football is a team game of 11 players all playing completely different roles but all linked, swapping one out can affect the other 10 positively or negatively.

I disliked Martinez as much as anyone in the last two seasons but his crime for me was trying to do what had worked in the first season with the wrong type of players to make it work. You’ve just completely ignored other contributing factors and lumped everything on the manager as is your continual want.

If Everton continue to buy slow players, we will continue to be on the back foot regardless of who the manager is. I can’t make this any clearer for you. Dyche or no Dyche.

 

[bluestevon]

McCarthy was the workhorse and legs in that midfield in that first season under Martinez.

Bit the same way as Parkinson was under Royle or Reid was under Kendall. Obviously nowhere near either of those two though - especially Reid.

It's why the debate is had about Doucoure in the side even now - he covers a huge amount of ground and without him we do look way easier to cut right through.

Onto the current side, our main issue throughout is a lack of pace - meaning we have to get the positioning spot on else we get exposed, under Dyche it is t as much of an issue as we play so deep anyways, under a different manager we need to add players who have it though.

Right now from the midfield back only Branthwaite has pace (O'Brien also but simply put he won't play under Dyche).

Gueye is slow, Doucoure and Mangala also, McNeil, Harrison, Coleman, Young, Mykolenko - none have any pace. Can throw Tarks into the mix with Keane as well.

Ndiaye and Lindstrom aren't slow but neither is a burner - both seem faster with the ball at feet.

Garner - average speed at best, Tim does have pace but still injured and still unproven really.

You can get by with 2-3 out the 8 being slow or below average as long as they have pace around them and they are smart players who get their positioning right almost always (Barry did for example).

It's not gonna be about just adding numbers for a new manager but ensuring the players address some glaring weaknesses in types of players we have currently.

 

[Saint Domingo]

McCarthy was the workhorse and legs in that midfield in that first season under Martinez.

Bit the same way as Parkinson was under Royle or Reid was under Kendall. Obviously nowhere near either of those two though - especially Reid.

It's why the debate is had about Doucoure in the side even now - he covers a huge amount of ground and without him we do look way easier to cut right through.

Onto the current side, our main issue throughout is a lack of pace - meaning we have to get the positioning spot on else we get exposed, under Dyche it is t as much of an issue as we play so deep anyways, under a different manager we need to add players who have it though.

Right now from the midfield back only Branthwaite has pace (O'Brien also but simply put he won't play under Dyche).

Gueye is slow, Doucoure and Mangala also, McNeil, Harrison, Coleman, Young, Mykolenko - none have any pace. Can throw Tarks into the mix with Keane as well.

Ndiaye and Lindstrom aren't slow but neither is a burner - both seem faster with the ball at feet.

Garner - average speed at best, Tim does have pace but still injured and still unproven really.

You can get by with 2-3 out the 8 being slow or below average as long as they have pace around them and they are smart players who get their positioning right almost always (Barry did for example).

It's not gonna be about just adding numbers for a new manager but ensuring the players address some glaring weaknesses in types of players we have currently.

Amen

 

[blueboy72]

Didn’t say McCarthy was better. They’re different. Barry had time and space on the ball because of McCarthy, without him he didn’t, got rushed, got ran through, couldn’t cover the ground needed in defence.

Football is a team game of 11 players all playing completely different roles but all linked, swapping one out can affect the other 10 positively or negatively.

I disliked Martinez as much as anyone in the last two seasons but his crime for me was trying to do what had worked in the first season with the wrong type of players to make it work. You’ve just completely ignored other contributing factors and lumped everything on the manager as is your continual want.

If Everton continue to buy slow players, we will continue to be on the back foot regardless of who the manager is. I can’t make this any clearer for you. Dyche or no Dyche.

Teams wanting to be successful will buy Gareth Barry like city did and Liverpool wanted to,
Teams that just want to scrap and fight around mid table will buy McCarthy’s
You could have named 100 players Everton needed moving forward and
You said James McCarty
That’s made my day an absolute belter

 

[bluestevon]

Didn’t say McCarthy was better. They’re different. Barry had time and space on the ball because of McCarthy, without him he didn’t, got rushed, got ran through, couldn’t cover the ground needed in defence.

Football is a team game of 11 players all playing completely different roles but all linked, swapping one out can affect the other 10 positively or negatively.

I disliked Martinez as much as anyone in the last two seasons but his crime for me was trying to do what had worked in the first season with the wrong type of players to make it work. You’ve just completely ignored other contributing factors and lumped everything on the manager as is your continual want.

If Everton continue to buy slow players, we will continue to be on the back foot regardless of who the manager is. I can’t make this any clearer for you. Dyche or no Dyche.

Any form of high line you need two fast CBs who can cover the channels and a intelligent centre mid who can drop in when needed and can read the game.

Fullbacks then need to be able to cover a lot of ground or be very good at pinning back the wide players of the oppo. Again if they bomb forward you need a centre mid who can drop into cover when needed to stop being rude open to any counter.

I think Thelwell is 'trying' to bring in players to facilitate a change of manager easier.

Garner, Tim, O'Brien, Ndiaye, Lindstrom, all seem to be able to play a more adventurous set up but the fullbacks are a glaring weak spot as is the lack of either a very fast central mid who can cover ground or a really smart one who can read the game well (Garner 'could' be that player if he finally gets a position as his own rather than suffer from being a utility player)

 

[Saint Domingo]

Teams wanting to be successful will buy Gareth Barry like city did and Liverpool wanted to,
Teams that just want to scrap and fight around mid table will buy McCarthy’s
You could have named 100 players Everton needed moving forward and
You said James McCarty
That’s made my day an absolute belter

Successful teams didn’t buy 33 year old Gareth Barry. That’s the difference. I also said a player like James McCarthy.

You’re suggesting we keep buying slow central midfielders? You may as well have been on the Everton board the last 30 years because you have clearly learned nothing of our struggles in that period.

Let’s not replicate what worked for us in a season of 72 points, and instead replicate what’s failed us miserably for best part of three decades. What an absolute genius you are, a slow 32 year old midfielder is just what this team needs. Couldn’t make it up. Is that you Denise?