2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[Clarky cat]

This new manager bounce is lasting a bit longer than some of you thought eh? Bloody players passing it to each other ffs! Actual attacking passages of play resulting in goals ffs! Players not getting a look in under a cowardly fraud looking transformed ffs!
Quick get an ambiguous graph up to show how great the over-promoted defensive ball bag was and pretend Moyes has got loads of new players to work with (conveniently forgetting you thought the squad couldn’t possibly do any better simply by changing the manager).

 

[Saint Domingo]

Were Dyche capable of doing what Moyes has done in the last five games , he would have done it. By his own admission he could not, and by all our collective observations he could not. Its not his fault - he is a rigid manager who's tactics will get 2 wins out of 10 tries , which is good enough if you are in a relegation scrap. But that will not get you up the table.
Like many managers he is not flexible in his approach based on the resources available. I dont dislike him for it, everyone has their limitations.

This season yes.

People seemingly forget this same manager did a run of four wins last season including Forest Newcastle Chelsea Burnley, and then won 5 in 7 at the end of the season including a derby win, all wins in those streaks without conceding a single goal. He also started off his tenure with 2 wins out of 3, one being against the top of the league at the time. Should have seen some of the comments on here at the time, Dyche was the best thing going after Lampard apparently. So all this ‘he’s not capable’ is a bit ridiculous when it’s literally all there in the last 2 years. Away wins at Brighton, wins in a row, beating Liverpool, did I imagine all these happening?

My point is all managers have good and bad spells. I hope people remember this the first time Moyes hits a dip and continue to back him rather than start instantly crying demanding a manager who will win at whatever their desired rate is. I would love him to keep this current form up but as we are the form team in the league over the last 5 games I very much doubt it will continue to go on this way (much as I want it to). It’s at that point that Moyes needs fans supporting him for the job at hand rather than getting bored, toys out the pram, and start campaigning for the next shiny ball (why didn’t we get a young progressive manager like Iraola etc.)

 

[MikeH72]

No matter how much screaming and shouting - that change was never happening until new owners were in place.

You were still against it even with new owners. You thought new owners meant we were going to spend a fortune in January on new players. That was the only way we had any hope of improving.

Nobody else could do anything with these players. Remember that. I’ll be posting it in the Moyes thread after every win.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You were still against it even with new owners.

New owners confirmed 19th December.

After the first defeat under them owners on 29th December, I was sharing a view to sack him.

He knew he was a dead man walking, admitting players stopped listening to him.

The club couldn't recruit in January under those circumstances.

You thought new owners meant we were going to spend a fortune in January on new players. That was the only way we had any hope of improving. Nobody else could do anything with these players.

Benitez won 4 in his first 5. Dyche won a few. Form is temporary, and this team is 12th-17th.

Moyes wanted 3 in, and for good reason.

As I said under Lampard, Dyche and now Moyes - only investment will move us away from perennial strugglers.

Remember that. I’ll be posting it in the Moyes thread after every win.

You wanted Duncan Ferguson over David Moyes. Remember that.

 

[Terrarian]

You lot are nuts still bickering over Dyche, just putting forwards the same arguments over and over again. I don't think you'll ever agree so may as well just move on.

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

This season yes.

People seemingly forget this same manager did a run of four wins last season including Forest Newcastle Chelsea Burnley, and then won 5 in 7 at the end of the season including a derby win, all wins in those streaks without conceding a single goal. He also started off his tenure with 2 wins out of 3, one being against the top of the league at the time. Should have seen some of the comments on here at the time, Dyche was the best thing going after Lampard apparently. So all this ‘he’s not capable’ is a bit ridiculous when it’s literally all there in the last 2 years. Away wins at Brighton, wins in a row, beating Liverpool, did I imagine all these happening?

My point is all managers have good and bad spells. I hope people remember this the first time Moyes hits a dip and continue to back him rather than start instantly crying demanding a manager who will win at whatever their desired rate is. I would love him to keep this current form up but as we are the form team in the league over the last 5 games I very much doubt it will continue to go on this way (much as I want it to). It’s at that point that Moyes needs fans supporting him for the job at hand rather than getting bored, toys out the pram, and start campaigning for the next shiny ball (why didn’t we get a young progressive manager like Iraola etc.)

All good points, and managers are judged by results. I dont think their record is judged on streaks, as you observed last season Dyche had 2 winning clutches of games at either end of the season ,but he also had a barren streak in the middle of 'No Wins' that balances the season's record.

This doesnt alter my initial point that a coach that gets you 2 wins in 10 is good enough to survive a relegation scrap but the same coach is ensuring you stay in that relegation scrap by only getting 2 wins out of 10.

 

[MikeH72]

New owners confirmed 19th December.

After the first defeat under them owners on 29th December, I was sharing a view to sack him.

He knew he was a dead man walking, admitting players stopped listening to him.

The club couldn't recruit in January under those circumstances.



Benitez won 4 in his first 5. Dyche won a few. Form is temporary, and this team is 12th-17th.

Moyes wanted 3 in, and for good reason.

As I said under Lampard, Dyche and now Moyes - only investment will move us away from perennial strugglers.



You wanted Duncan Ferguson over David Moyes. Remember that.

That’s fine. I made a stupid call 5 years ago. I can live with that.

You mocked my suggestion of David Moyes in September 2024

Remember that

 

[Cameron Manning]

New owners confirmed 19th December.

After the first defeat under them owners on 29th December, I was sharing a view to sack him.

He knew he was a dead man walking, admitting players stopped listening to him.

The club couldn't recruit in January under those circumstances.



Benitez won 4 in his first 5. Dyche won a few. Form is temporary, and this team is 12th-17th.

Moyes wanted 3 in, and for good reason.

As I said under Lampard, Dyche and now Moyes - only investment will move us away from perennial strugglers.



You wanted Duncan Ferguson over David Moyes. Remember that.

Did he really want Duncan Ferguson over Moyes? Incredible! Not that Moyes is anything special but Ferguson—Hard to believe that!

 

[GrandOldTeam]

That’s fine. I made a stupid call 5 years ago. I can live with that.

You mocked my suggestion of David Moyes in September 2024

Remember that

The reasons I give then are still accurate;

1. Everton weren't sacking a manager until ownership was resolved.
2. Managers of any standard, including Moyes, wouldn't have come then.

 

[Saint Domingo]

All good points, and managers are judged by results. I dont think their record is judged on streaks, as you observed last season Dyche had 2 winning clutches of games at either end of the season ,but he also had a barren streak in the middle of 'No Wins' that balances the season's record.

This doesnt alter my initial point that a coach that gets you 2 wins in 10 is good enough to survive a relegation scrap but the same coach is ensuring you stay in that relegation scrap by only getting 2 wins out of 10.

Moyes is a brilliant manager in my view, much better than Dyche, but in his second full season here he hit some awful runs of form, 9 games without a win, then 6 without a win to finish the season with 4 losses in a row.

If we hadn’t have stuck with him through that then we’d never have got what came afterwards. Would that be accepted now though? Now at the sign of the first down turn for a manager there’s a section of fans who want them out. I hope they don’t rear their heads again if Moyes hits a patch of rough form because we could really do with another long term job from Moyes here to take us back up the table.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Did he really want Duncan Ferguson over Moyes? Incredible! Not that Moyes is anything special but Ferguson—Hard to believe that!

Ha, to be fair - you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who wanted Moyes back then. This was the response then;

Thread 'David Moyes'

December 10, 2019

Welcome (back) to Everton. Big market mover this morning.

Thoughts? I think HIGHLY controversial

• orly
• Replies: 351
• Forum: Everton Forum

• 
• 

Homepage Article Thread 'POLL: Do you want Moyes back? Results: 80% No'

December 5, 2019

According to the BBC, Marco Silva is set to be sacked with David Moyes on Everton’s shortlist as a potential replacement.

Do you want David Moyes back as Everton manager? Vote in our poll here: https://www.grandoldteam.com/2019/12/05/poll-do-you-want-moyes-back/

Continue reading...

• GrandOldTeam
• Replies: 802
• Forum: Everton Forum

Evidently we're fickle, and browbeaten from years of misery.

Moyes wasn't TFG's preferred choice, they wanted Dyche get us to the summer to hire someone who was in a job and wouldn't come until then. Would they have done a better job than Moyes from this summer? I guess we'll never know.

 

[Lanolin]

This new manager bounce is lasting a bit longer than some of you thought eh? Bloody players passing it to each other ffs! Actual attacking passages of play resulting in goals ffs! Players not getting a look in under a cowardly fraud looking transformed ffs!
Quick get an ambiguous graph up to show how great the over-promoted defensive ball bag was and pretend Moyes has got loads of new players to work with (conveniently forgetting you thought the squad couldn’t possibly do any better simply by changing the manager).

The problem with suggesting this isn't any sort of new manager bounce at all is it means expectations have to go up exponentially for next season. If this squad genuinely is one which we should expect to go on runs like this as standard then we need to be expecting top 6 next year really, that's just the reality of where you end up if this is your default level and that's before we even bring in new players. If we're saying that Top 6 shouldn't be our minimum aim for next season then by definition we're accepting that this is - to some extent at least - a bounce.

Personally I'm absolutely made up with how well Moyes has done, I wasn't convinced he was the right appointment but he's done way better than I expected so far. Ultimately I still think we're a bottom half team enjoying a good run, but i'll be overjoyed if it turns out I was wrong and this is a sustainable upturn in form.

 

[Neiler]

There's a lot of hatred towards him in this thread. Someone was saying only the other day they hate him more than any other manager. I find it really odd. Yeah going the game was grim under him, nevermind running an Everton fan site/forum but hate? Not for me.

Only once I've felt we were down, it was prior him coming in.

If someone would have told me after Crystal Palace, or Bournemouth we wouldn't investment in the squad, and of the point deductions that were coming - I'd have snapped hands off just to get to Bramley a PL team.



Yeah thats what I mean, but now we can move on from a mentality of any manager deserving a go to the owners aiming to have the very best they can get.
I'd have wanted Dyche gone after Bournemouth if we weren't a basketcase. Similar to how I wanted Allardyce gone. There's better managers out there.

Agree, the likes of Moyes wouldn't have entertained us prior ownership being resolved. That an PSR was a state of paralysis, all about getting to this summer.

I guess that approach and mindset of nobody deserves anything covers a lot of aspect of the club.

Take Thelwell - many say he deserves a chance with resources. But then is he the best DOF we can get!

Also players may want to keep Lindstrom to pick one example - but is he the best attacking midfielder we can get.

A number of tough decisions when you apply the approach.

 

[Smurph]

This season yes.

People seemingly forget this same manager did a run of four wins last season including Forest Newcastle Chelsea Burnley, and then won 5 in 7 at the end of the season including a derby win, all wins in those streaks without conceding a single goal. He also started off his tenure with 2 wins out of 3, one being against the top of the league at the time. Should have seen some of the comments on here at the time, Dyche was the best thing going after Lampard apparently. So all this ‘he’s not capable’ is a bit ridiculous when it’s literally all there in the last 2 years. Away wins at Brighton, wins in a row, beating Liverpool, did I imagine all these happening?

My point is all managers have good and bad spells. I hope people remember this the first time Moyes hits a dip and continue to back him rather than start instantly crying demanding a manager who will win at whatever their desired rate is. I would love him to keep this current form up but as we are the form team in the league over the last 5 games I very much doubt it will continue to go on this way (much as I want it to). It’s at that point that Moyes needs fans supporting him for the job at hand rather than getting bored, toys out the pram, and start campaigning for the next shiny ball (why didn’t we get a young progressive manager like Iraola etc.)

Those streaks came from external FFP events that galvanised the club from top to bottom. There was absolutely no sign that they would appear again this season and to be fair to him Dyche seemingly recognised that himself.

A number of players, most recently Branthwaite, have pointed to real differences Moyes has made immediately in his coaching and taxtics, particularly in attack. I'm going to take them at face value that this isn't a new manager bounce but a real change of approach.

Our results and form will drop off, principally because of injuries to key players... but it won't get anyway near as bad as even normal Dyche levels.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Those streaks came from external FFP events that galvanised the club from top to bottom. There was absolutely no sign that they would appear again this season and to be fair to him Dyche seemingly recognised that himself.

A number of players, most recently Branthwaite, have pointed to real differences Moyes has made immediately in his coaching and taxtics, particularly in attack. I'm going to take them at face value that this isn't a new manager bounce but a real change of approach.

Our results and form will drop off, principally because of injuries to key players... but it won't get anyway near as bad as even normal Dyche levels.

Literally can’t even give him a shred of credit.

Players literally parrot the same stuff every time a new manager takes over. To go full circle I remember all the interviews about how Martinez was a breath of fresh air and had progressive tactics after he replaced….Moyes.

Moyes is a better manager than Dyche, no doubt, and he will have changed some things in the approach (although unlike some on here he has the class to give Dyche credit for the work he did) but I’ll be amazed if a ppg of over 2 points per game carries on for a long period of time, even with a fully fit team, it would literally put us in title challenger bracket over a whole season. That’s extremely unlikely to be the case so it is most probably a new manager bounce that will revert to the inherent quality of the squad more or less at some point, which is why we have to improve the squad.