2023/24 Sean Dyche

[COYBL25]

I disagree with that assessment completely my good friend. The reasons I do so are simple:

1. He had the least amount of money to spend at the club than any manager since the PL era began. In comparison - Koeman and Silva were managers during periods that we spent in excess of £150m each.


2. He left us in 16th, in comparison, Koeman, Silva & Lampard left us in the relegation zone.

3. He got rid of Brands who was DOF during the time we spent £200m on largely rubbish players on big contracts - Kean, Gbamin, Delph, Iwobi, Godfrey just to name a few.

Our fans can be a strange breed at times, they hate on Benitez and anyone who gives a fair assessment of him as mamager yet will go cheering on Liverpool winning football matches and wax lyrical over Reds like Carragher on social media because he wants Man City punished (as it will benefit Liverpool !).

 

[nsno-chris]

It's actually 27.1, seems too high imo, expected it to be 20-22, for the games against Fulham, West Ham and Wolves. The output of 14 is really poor and worrying, should be a few higher surely with the chances we had. I'm two-minded with Dyche as some coaching mistakes are visible, he's responsible for the general set up and some repetitive things are honestly frustrating.

These are 3 copy paste games, lost in the last few minutes with more chances than the opponent, far more. But tbf, there have been many games with barely chances as well. Ok, we mostly didn't admit a lot to the opponent either, but that was at the cost of attacking ability.

The question is on what is our poor conversation rate. A lot of decent footballers, but bad finishers, some of the worst I've seen as a team in 40 yrs of watching the sport. What makes us finishing so bad, there must be more than tactics behind it, I also think especially in the case of DCL it's a mental thing. We all know if something doesn't work endlessly you doubt about yourself. And the mental aspect is key in football.

What doesn't change is the reality of our poor game in possession mostly, long ball from GK, CB to an isolated ST. If you play that style, you need wingers to overlap, we don't have them due to 2 reasons, they are too much occupied in the defensive game and they lack pace and good first touches, when they get the ball. But only that style is quite after a while readable for the opponent and gets righteously criticized as we don't alternate a lot. I take set piece goals happily they count the same amount, but not on the expense of open play.

I should have clarified, the XG from open play was from the end of our “great run” of 4 games. It dropped off a cliff, as with the majority of Sean Dyche’s teams who are renowned for second half season slumps.

There’s a variety of issues at play, yes conversion rates are a concern but for that you’d really need to deep dive into the missed chances which no data can show.

The build up play is slow, predictable with no real contained pressure. Away this works great, at home it’s beyond poor and the onus is on us to force the game. We rarely do this.

The West Ham game was a slight improvement, but the majority of games the attacking style or play is easily swallowed up by the opposition. Chances that we miss tend to come together rather than an over sustained period of time.

We have no width, the wingers have virtually no support, Doucoure doesn’t really know what his position is and doesn’t have the technical ability to create chances from open play. Fullbacks are not supporting the attack and as such we get out numbered on numerous occasions which forces us to go back, the back some more before Pickford launches it long.

Our strikers spend the majority of their time outside the box, which highlights a lot of issues in our gameplay. Beto was our furthest forward player on Saturday, yet the majority of his time was spent 10 yards outside West Ham’s box. Same with Dom when he came on. Doucoure, the so called number 10 spent his time on the left hand side by McNeil.

Dyche is, and always will be a very conservative manager. He plays small time, setting up solely not to concede and to sneak a win. That may work at Burnley where teams will go at them on their own ground, but he’s at Everton now and teams will happily sit back and put the onus on us. And he simply cannot find away to crack the code.

Like for like substitutes don’t know change anything when the pattern of play is the same.

To succeed he needs to look outside his very small, tight coaching network and bring in a fresh face to make us more expansive at home whilst keeping his tight shape.

He does not have the capacity to do it himself, he keeps banging on about how he adapts and changes yet we have witnessed that once or twice in the 14 months he’s been here.

This is his one and only shot at a big club. The way we’re performing, he won’t get another once he’s removed from post

 

[preposterousvelios]

I disagree with that assessment completely my good friend. The reasons I do so are simple:

1. He had the least amount of money to spend at the club than any manager since the PL era began. In comparison - Koeman and Silva were managers during periods that we spent in excess of £150m each.


2. He left us in 16th, in comparison, Koeman, Silva & Lampard left us in the relegation zone.

3. He got rid of Brands who was DOF during the time we spent £200m on largely rubbish players on big contracts - Kean, Gbamin, Delph, Iwobi, Godfrey just to name a few.

Our fans can be a strange breed at times, they hate on Benitez and anyone who gives a fair assessment of him as mamager yet will go cheering on Liverpool winning football matches and wax lyrical over Reds like Carragher on social media because he wants Man City punished (as it will benefit Liverpool !).

Fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion. Still a bizarre view of things from where I'm sat though.

1. He may not have been able to spend like those that came before him but he bungled what money he did have to spend. Yes we had to cut spending, but I personally can't see him chasing James and Digne out the club and spending that money on Myko and Patterson as anything other than a major downgrade. Even after Myko has improved his game this season.

2. Lampard bad does not = Benitez good. We've made consistently terrible appointments post Carlo. But the reality is that everyone who's come in after Benitez was stuck cleaning up the catastrophic mess he left behind. Even after a disappointing end to the season Carlo had brought a good feeling back back the club and Benitez completely killed that. Relationship between fans and team was the worst it's ever been, and it was obvious the majority of players no longer wanted to be here.

3. It can be debated whether Brands leaving was good or bad, or indeed how much influence he ever had in the first place. But a DOF being chased out of a club by a manager is never good however you slice it. That's not how a club should be run internally and is only further proof of how pigheaded and destructive Benitez was during his time in charge.

 

[nsno-chris]

The Benitez 8, like the Sith, remain in the shadows

 

[roy vernon]

Of course it matters. If a manager doesn't align with a club's ideals, it's doomed to fail.

And you think Dyche aligns with our ideals?

 

[Goat]

What a strange hill to die on. I don't hate Benitez as much as some (largely because I don't have the energy) but there was no doubt he was absolutely woeful.

I honestly couldnt give a toss about him, hes gone, it was a horrid period, but hey, we move on.

Dyche is our manager now, hes my only concern.

 

[matty1878]

I disagree with that assessment completely my good friend. The reasons I do so are simple:

1. He had the least amount of money to spend at the club than any manager since the PL era began. In comparison - Koeman and Silva were managers during periods that we spent in excess of £150m each.


2. He left us in 16th, in comparison, Koeman, Silva & Lampard left us in the relegation zone.

3. He got rid of Brands who was DOF during the time we spent £200m on largely rubbish players on big contracts - Kean, Gbamin, Delph, Iwobi, Godfrey just to name a few.

Our fans can be a strange breed at times, they hate on Benitez and anyone who gives a fair assessment of him as mamager yet will go cheering on Liverpool winning football matches and wax lyrical over Reds like Carragher on social media because he wants Man City punished (as it will benefit Liverpool !).

your chatting tripe lad

 

[LucBesson]

And you think Dyche aligns with our ideals?

No idea. Right now we're in a firefighting mode so I don't think it matters as much as if we were going "here's the keys, this is a 5+ year project"

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

Tbf to Dyche he explained that he respects Thatcher as a historical figure

What is she famous for as an historical figure FB? Dyche said he'd have a woman who caused misery to thousands of people in Liverpool and beyond around for dinner! Again leave the politics aside and focus on the football where sometimes you make half decent points.

 

[roy vernon]

No idea. Right now we're in a firefighting mode so I don't think it matters as much as if we were going "here's the keys, this is a 5+ year project"

Exactly, he is definitely not aligned with our ideals, but, that doesn't matter, if he keeps us up. If he does he'll be forgiven for the terrible, negative hoofball, if he doesn't it will be a different matter.

I don't advocate sacking him, not because I think he's any good. I just don't think it's worth spending more money we haven't got, to pay off yet another manager and his staff and then replace him with another manager like him, Lampard or Benitez, that is the level of manager we can attract at the moment. Our form since mid December, however, has been as bad as anything under Lampard or Benitez. True relegation stuff for the last two and a half months.

 

[Marius57]

What is she famous for as an historical figure FB? Dyche said he'd have a woman who caused misery to thousands of people in Liverpool and beyond around for dinner! Again leave the politics aside and focus on the football where sometimes you make half decent points.

When’s that then?

 

[Cork Evertonian]

I despair at some folk on here.

What does anyone expect, when you look at the facts:

1. Poor squad, with little to no additions in his tenure
2. Back to back Houdini-esque escapes from relegation
3. No club management at senior level, board
4. Ownership at war with fans
5. Ownership in chaos
6. Points deductions for periods he wasn’t even here
7. Strikers who can’t strike. 22 shots at goal vs West Ham for example
8. Fan expectations beyond his or club’s ability to deliver
9. No money, no investment, no hope

In those circumstances he’s doing okay.

Is he the medium to longer fix for the team, hell no. Has he been a disaster, hell no.

One league win in the last three months almost. Your definition of doing okay sure does differ greatly to mine!

Is expecting at least a couple of league wins wins December 16th too great of an expectation now? Are we really downgrading expectations now to this pathetic extent?

 

[Delargeinho]

I should have clarified, the XG from open play was from the end of our “great run” of 4 games. It dropped off a cliff, as with the majority of Sean Dyche’s teams who are renowned for second half season slumps.

There’s a variety of issues at play, yes conversion rates are a concern but for that you’d really need to deep dive into the missed chances which no data can show.

The build up play is slow, predictable with no real contained pressure. Away this works great, at home it’s beyond poor and the onus is on us to force the game. We rarely do this.

The West Ham game was a slight improvement, but the majority of games the attacking style or play is easily swallowed up by the opposition. Chances that we miss tend to come together rather than an over sustained period of time.

We have no width, the wingers have virtually no support, Doucoure doesn’t really know what his position is and doesn’t have the technical ability to create chances from open play. Fullbacks are not supporting the attack and as such we get out numbered on numerous occasions which forces us to go back, the back some more before Pickford launches it long.

Our strikers spend the majority of their time outside the box, which highlights a lot of issues in our gameplay. Beto was our furthest forward player on Saturday, yet the majority of his time was spent 10 yards outside West Ham’s box. Same with Dom when he came on. Doucoure, the so called number 10 spent his time on the left hand side by McNeil.

Dyche is, and always will be a very conservative manager. He plays small time, setting up solely not to concede and to sneak a win. That may work at Burnley where teams will go at them on their own ground, but he’s at Everton now and teams will happily sit back and put the onus on us. And he simply cannot find away to crack the code.

Like for like substitutes don’t know change anything when the pattern of play is the same.

To succeed he needs to look outside his very small, tight coaching network and bring in a fresh face to make us more expansive at home whilst keeping his tight shape.

He does not have the capacity to do it himself, he keeps banging on about how he adapts and changes yet we have witnessed that once or twice in the 14 months he’s been here.

This is his one and only shot at a big club. The way we’re performing, he won’t get another once he’s removed from post

Wow, that's a lot to read. I tried to be short with my statement, but you pretty well explored the problems which I tried to insinuate in paragraph 1, 2, 4. What I meant with isolated striker is the situation you describe with Beto/DCL and Doucoure in most of the games. Basically named the only games where we had a good amount of chances, apart from our winning streak. And as I said in a lot of games we barely had chances, because of defense first, as it tactically scarified the wingers/full backs from joining the attack.

You also say the technical problems in the midfield/wing of the squad which are obvious. Don't see Doucs as a number 10 either in the long term. It will be the biggest task on the transfer market to fix to some extent in the summer.

Obviously I see the lacks of Dyche. It's like with Moyes, you know what you get and what you don't get and it won't change. He got West Ham in a position, where the ceiling is reached, and I am sure he can hold it, but also understand the board and fans to reach same with better football.

We probably need to endure Dyche for another season, as his contract will expire in 2025 and we can't really afford him to sack financially.

It's actually 27.1, seems too high imo, expected it to be 20-22, for the games against Fulham, West Ham and Wolves. The output of 14 is really poor and worrying, should be a few higher surely with the chances we had. I'm two-minded with Dyche as some coaching mistakes are visible, he's responsible for the general set up and some repetitive things are honestly frustrating.

These are 3 copy paste games, lost in the last few minutes with more chances than the opponent, far more. But tbf, there have been many games with barely chances as well. Ok, we mostly didn't admit a lot to the opponent either, but that was at the cost of attacking ability.

The question is on what is our poor conversation rate. A lot of decent footballers, but bad finishers, some of the worst I've seen as a team in 40 yrs of watching the sport. What makes us finishing so bad, there must be more than tactics behind it, I also think especially in the case of DCL it's a mental thing. We all know if something doesn't work endlessly you doubt about yourself. And the mental aspect is key in football.

What doesn't change is the reality of our poor game in possession mostly, long ball from GK, CB to an isolated ST. If you play that style, you need wingers/fbs to overlap, we don't have them due to 2 reasons, they are too much occupied in the defensive game and they lack pace and good first touches, when they get the ball. But only that style is quite after a while readable for the opponent and gets righteously criticized as we don't alternate a lot. I take set piece goals happily they count the same amount, but not on the expense of open play.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

The Benitez 8, like the Sith, remain in the shadows

 

[wabisabi]

There are other broader and more systemic factors in the mounting case against Dyche. One is seen in the premature sale of Ellis-Simms. Many supporters could see the potential this lad was beginning to demonstrate. It was on clear display in his run out and equalising goal at Chelsea.
His sale reflects Dyche's general lack of enthusiasm for younger players over the old-old guard and/or his difficulty in developing some of the younger members of the squad. This coupled with Beto as a replacement for Simms looks like poor player assessment.