2024/25 Sean Dyche

[roy vernon]

Here’s a scenario for you

A complete basket case club approaches you 20 games into the season already in the bottom 3. It’s just sold its best attacking player and has no funds for a replacement in that window. Every other manager it’s approached has knocked them back to date. Its only striker has been out injured for the entire season. This club has not seen a manager last longer than 18 months since 2016 and has fired 6 managers and seen another one walk since then.

The club has no money for transfers in the immediate future and will probably need to sell your best players every summer window. There’s a looming points deduction that could hit at any time. The owner wants out and could sell the club at any point. There’s no permanent CEO or BOD and the DOF is one season in. They also have a militant fan base that expects to be challenging for Europe and winning trophies whilst having the only positive net spend in the league.

By the way if you get it wrong and don’t keep them up you’ll forever be the manager who ended Everton’s top flight status, put them in the championship going into a new stadium, and actually put the mere existence of the club into doubt.

So when they come and offer you a 2 and a half year contract, do you:

Expect that you’ll be fired at some point and ask for a massive salary and a termination pay off?

Or

Ask for a salary that’s befitting of the club being in the bottom 3 and graciously accept that you could be terminated for free at any point even if you achieve all your objectives?

Some people don’t seem to understand the relative negotiating positions of Everton and Sean Dyche AT THE TIME we hired him. It’s a different ball game now, but at the time, we were on our knees begging him. He was therefore able to dictate the terms and we accepted them based on our desperation to stay up (which he then delivered)

Dont cry about the realities of that commercial negotiation after the fact. If we choose to bullet Dyche now then I guarantee you whatever the payment is it will be a drop in the ocean compared to what the cost of relegation would have been.

He'd been out of work for a year, after being fired by the mighty Burnley, that hardly makes his bargaining position any stronger than ours. Let's be honest, this job was beyond his wildest dreams. Although I think the may regard those dreams as nightmares by now.

Anyway, I doubt that even Everton were stupid, or desperate enough, to have given him a £5 mill bonus if he was bad enough to get sacked before his 2•5 years were up. I think it is far more likely that the sum mentioned was what was left on his contract at the beginning of the season. As you say, if he's sacked and a new man keeps us up, the expenditure was justified, provided we can find the money to do it.

My take for what it's worth, is that he will see this season out and will not get a new contract. Having said that, if we could get someone in very rapidly, I'd like to see him replaced now.

 

[GrandOldSte117]

Our problem is since we sold Lukaku, we don't take our chances. Fulham and Wolves at home were a classic example. I don't think we are as bad as some people make out on here, we nearly got a draw at Arsenal without a bad VAR decision. My issue with Dyche is his tactics are completely reliant on us getting 1st goal. I don't think Dyche deserves credit for keeping us up, it was a stoppage time goal v Wolves that gave us chance to stay up. My view is Dyche has lowered standards so low, people accept bare minimum.

I'm not sure Dyche is the one who did that mate, we've all seen this squad try to play football and we all know about 50% of the overall story of what's going on behind the scenes. The 50% we know of is tragic.

 

[ForeverEverton]

Here’s a scenario for you

A complete basket case club approaches you 20 games into the season already in the bottom 3. It’s just sold its best attacking player and has no funds for a replacement in that window. Every other manager it’s approached has knocked them back to date. Its only striker has been out injured for the entire season. This club has not seen a manager last longer than 18 months since 2016 and has fired 6 managers and seen another one walk since then.

The club has no money for transfers in the immediate future and will probably need to sell your best players every summer window. There’s a looming points deduction that could hit at any time. The owner wants out and could sell the club at any point. There’s no permanent CEO or BOD and the DOF is one season in. They also have a militant fan base that expects to be challenging for Europe and winning trophies whilst having the only positive net spend in the league.

By the way if you get it wrong and don’t keep them up you’ll forever be the manager who ended Everton’s top flight status, put them in the championship going into a new stadium, and actually put the mere existence of the club into doubt.

So when they come and offer you a 2 and a half year contract, do you:

Expect that you’ll be fired at some point and ask for a massive salary and a termination pay off?

Or

Ask for a salary that’s befitting of the club being in the bottom 3 and graciously accept that you could be terminated for free at any point even if you achieve all your objectives?

Some people don’t seem to understand the relative negotiating positions of Everton and Sean Dyche AT THE TIME we hired him. It’s a different ball game now, but at the time, we were on our knees begging him. He was therefore able to dictate the terms and we accepted them based on our desperation to stay up (which he then delivered)

Dont cry about the realities of that commercial negotiation after the fact. If we choose to bullet Dyche now then I guarantee you whatever the payment is it will be a drop in the ocean compared to what the cost of relegation would have been.

I don`t think the club will approach any candidate with that negative approach. Anyone in the game knows what a club Everton can be, massive potential in every aspect.

A good manager will earn more than enough points to ward off any other incoming points deduction. After Chelsea and Leicester getting off I think it would be very bad PR for the PL to come after Everton again.

 

[jazzy]

He'd been out of work for a year, after being fired by the mighty Burnley, that hardly makes his bargaining position any stronger than ours. Let's be honest, this job was beyond his wildest dreams. Although I think the may regard those dreams as nightmares by now.

Anyway, I doubt that even Everton were stupid, or desperate enough, to have given him a £5 mill bonus if he was bad enough to get sacked before his 2•5 years were up. I think it is far more likely that the sum mentioned was what was left on his contract at the beginning of the season. As you say, if he's sacked and a new man keeps us up, the expenditure was justified, provided we can find the money to do it.

My take for what it's worth, is that he will see this season out and will not get a new contract. Having said that, if we could get someone in very rapidly, I'd like to see him replaced now.

The alleged clause is irrelevant.

If we want to replace him , just put the dinosaur on gardening leave and continue to pay him his salary until his contract expires.

Let the fool walk out and sue us for constructive dismissal and tie him up in litigation for years

 

[Frenk]

Still here then.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I don`t think the club will approach any candidate with that negative approach. Anyone in the game knows what a club Everton can be, massive potential in every aspect.

A good manager will earn more than enough points to ward off any other incoming points deduction. After Chelsea and Leicester getting off I think it would be very bad PR for the PL to come after Everton again.

The landscape now is completely different that’s true. Thanks to the job Dyche has done the squad is now better than the one he picked up and the finances are not as crippling. As you say a manager will take their chances over 35 games rather than 18.

People are delusional though if they think these managers who on the hand are getting criticised for having massive egos, would also apparently be unaffected by the prospect of having a relegation on their CV (which was the prospect we were facing when Dyche came in).

Any decent manager wants a stable club with finances behind them for a chance of success. They don’t come running to the door because we’re big old Everton. They care as much as Bielsa did. Loads were probably waiting to pick us up in the championship and be the saviour who brought us back. No doubt once we’ve changed owners and FFP is behind us and we’re mid table in a new stadium we’ll have the same queue of usual candidates we had when we hired Silva and Ancelotti but back in the January of 2023 we were not an attractive prospect and any incoming manager had a stronger negotiating position.

 

[jazzy]

The landscape now is completely different that’s true. Thanks to the job Dyche has done the squad is now better than the one he picked up and the finances are not as crippling. As you say a manager will take their chances over 35 games rather than 18.

People are delusional though if they think these managers who on the hand are getting criticised for having massive egos, would also apparently be unaffected by the prospect of having a relegation on their CV (which was the prospect we were facing when Dyche came in).

Any decent manager wants a stable club with finances behind them for a chance of success. They don’t come running to the door because we’re big old Everton. They care as much as Bielsa did. Loads were probably waiting to pick us up in the championship and be the saviour who brought us back. No doubt once we’ve changed owners and FFP is behind us and we’re mid table in a new stadium we’ll have the same queue of usual candidates we had when we hired Silva and Ancelotti but back in the January of 2023 we were not an attractive prospect and any incoming manager had a stronger negotiating position.

I can think of 5 million reasons why a decent manager would be interested in managing Everton , post dinosaur

 

[nsno-chris]

Bielsa who had been fired by one of our relegation rivals had just KBd us saying he’d rather train our kids. Absolutely we were desperate.

We approached 2 managers; Moshiri wanted Bielsa and Kenwright wanted the safe pair of hands

We went with option b

It was literally that simple, unless you can provide any shed of information to back this ridiculous claim up

 

[Saint Domingo]

We approached 2 managers; Moshiri wanted Bielsa and Kenwright wanted the safe pair of hands

We went with option b

It was literally that simple, unless you can provide any shed of information to back this ridiculous claim up

So my claim is ridiculous but yours is ‘literally that simple’

How nice it must be to reside in your one track mind

 

[Abertonian]

Thanks to the job Dyche has done the squad is now better than the one he picked up and the finances are not as crippling.

What has he done exactly? You crediting him with players running down their contracts?

Our finances are in a worse position than the day he walked into the club. That's not on him but what you've said is utter nonsense.

 

[Saint Domingo]

What has he done exactly? You crediting him with players running down their contracts?

Our finances are in a worse position than the day he walked into the club. That's not on him but what you've said is utter nonsense.

Did we just magically jump from low 30 to mid 30s points in consecutive seasons to 48 last season? Was it an accident? Did I imagine the 4th best defence in the league? All of this whilst turning a profit in every summer transfer window he’s been here.

Yeah he’s done nothing.

 

[nsno-chris]

So my claim is ridiculous but yours is ‘literally that simple’

How nice it must be to reside in your one track mind

Well we know that Everton interviewed both Bielsa and Dyche

Yet there is literally not one shred of evidence to show that Everton begged Sean Dyche to manage them

 

[Lob]

Did we just magically jump from low 30 to mid 30s points in consecutive seasons to 48 last season? Was it an accident? Did I imagine the 4th best defence in the league? All of this whilst turning a profit in every summer transfer window he’s been here.

Yeah he’s done nothing.

Honestly mate, who cares about last season. All i care is about is now and the future and we are currently the 20th best defence in the league having conceded 10 and scored 2 and lost all 3 games. Dyche has been absolutely atrocious so far this season, no question about it.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Well we know that Everton interviewed both Bielsa and Dyche

Yet there is literally not one shred of evidence to show that Everton begged Sean Dyche to manage them

Apart from the contract we agreed where we pay him one of the highest salaries in Europe despite us being a bottom 3 team at the time.

Yeah apart from that there’s no indication we were desperate for his services at all.

‘Sean we’re lukewarm on you, and we’ve got lots of other options, but despite that here’s a contract with an eye watering salary and all the clauses you asked for’.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Honestly mate, who cares about last season. All i care is about is now and the future and we are currently the 20th best defence in the league having conceded 10 and scored 2 and lost all 3 games. Dyche has been absolutely atrocious so far this season, no question about it.

Yeah he has been, but it’s been 3 games.

The parameters remain what they always have under Moshiri. If it looks likely we’re going down he’ll be fired, like every other manager has been. His PPG over the previous 18 months though says he’ll keep us up. So honestly until we sort the ownership situation out, what is the point in firing him after 3 games? Who even takes the job? Thats a genuine question, who would take a job knowing in 6 months a new owner is in post and could boot you out?

We’d end up with some ex player or interim manager until the takeover was complete and they’d probably be no better than Dyche would have been and we’d have wasted a load of money.