Second Balls

[Egil Olsen]

Well, now I have not seen any stats on it if it is actually so, but I know we get far down the list of teams that manage to regain the ball on the opponent's half of the field.

Should I speculate, my best guess would be that we have too large distances between the lines when we attack. Which is a result of the fact that we often defend ourselves deeply, and the lack of good collective attacking play.

We are very rarely able to create numerical advantage around the ball, and then it is difficult to win second balls. We also do not have a good collective pressure game.

 

[Brownie]

We have very few players capable of physically dominating an opponent in general. I'd say Calvert-Lewin is the only player we have that can properly bully someone, because of his jump.

In midfield though, we have a curious mix of players that have the stature to compete but either don't like the physical battle or are just rubbish at it (Sigurdsson, Gomes, Iwobi) and a couple who are willing to get stuck in but are too slight so liable to get ragdolled (Allan, Davies). Ideally you'd want your entire midfield to be athletic, bar maybe one special player who you have protect. It feels like we have it the other way around: one Doucoure has to protect everyone else.

 

[blulouie]

Well, now I have not seen any stats on it if it is actually so, but I know we get far down the list of teams that manage to regain the ball on the opponent's half of the field.

Should I speculate, my best guess would be that we have too large distances between the lines when we attack. Which is a result of the fact that we often defend ourselves deeply, and the lack of good collective attacking play.

We are very rarely able to create numerical advantage around the ball, and then it is difficult to win second balls. We also do not have a good collective pressure game.

Leicester also play a deep back line , but they find a way to play through a mixture of grit , determination and pace in the midfield .
They do it very well , something we dont have the personel ( bar Allan & Doucs when fit) to do.
We wont do it with our current players , so obviously they will have to be recruited , hopefully in the summer.

 

[Lapeno77]

Would hazard a guess that its because we arent close enough as a team to the focal point of our attack in DCL.
Again stems from the backwards passing from the midfield and the longball from Pickford.
We desperately need midfielders / wingers with the anility and willingness to carry the ball

 

[PaddyJames]

I strolled into this thread expecting Sassy to have finally started sharing her DM inbox. I have to say I'm massively disappointed.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Leicester also play a deep back line , but they find a way to play through a mixture of grit , determination and pace in the midfield .
They do it very well , something we dont have the personel ( bar Allan & Doucs when fit) to do.
We wont do it with our current players , so obviously they will have to be recruited , hopefully in the summer.

As mentioned, I do not know how real this problem is. My impression is that we struggle to maintain the pressure on the opponent when we attack. This of course depends on individual qualities, but also our intention in the attacking game. Are we happy to send up a racket to DCL who has to compete with 3-4 opponents, yes, then we will lose many second balls. How is our offensive marking, our counter-pressure (do we have a counter-pressure), what is the rule when we lose the ball, etc.

 

[Jimishorts]

Our lads, particularly our midfield, isn't combative enough.

 

[PITA]

I don’t get why we are literally the only team who:

1. Are so placid and apathetic to winning the second ball that we seem happy to concede them

2. Have absolutely no concept of the pressing game that’s been around for years now

Doesn’t matter who the manager is, these are just a constant

The pressing game has been around a long time. We used to call it closing down.

 

[kenada_blue]

After a few games now, Ancelotti has referred to spirit/us not winning second balls;



I think he's spot on.

Our lads, particularly our midfield, isn't combative enough.

This team, points wise, is within a sniff of Champions League but you'd be hard pushed to find an Everton team that finished top 10 over the years with a worse midfield.

Doucoure, Allan and Rodriguez improved it ten fold at the start of the season. Doucoure was ran into the ground, Allan was carrying an injury before he eventually missed a big spell and is now looking rusty and Rodriguez is what he is.

We're then left with Iwobi. Davies. Sigurdsson. Gomes. They can't tackle. They're all bullied. They don't want to do the donkey work - they don't press/show enough for the ball. They're not balanced and they're just... passive. Andre Gomes being the most dribbled past player in the top 4 european leagues is indicative of the problem.

I think it's this Ancelotti refers to when he's talking about mentality, not showing spirit and not winning second balls. He's spot on.

For me, midfield remains the priority in the summer.

I see we're linked with Rabiot again. Our biggest transfer should be a centre midfielder...

After that, addressing that right flank to give us an actual threat/balance and this Everton team go to another level.

It's not a great surprise especially when last season you saw Davies, Gomes, Siggy in midfield still catching up to players at full-time as they run in slow motion.

 

[alphabet]

I don’t get why we are literally the only team who:

1. Are so placid and apathetic to winning the second ball that we seem happy to concede them

2. Have absolutely no concept of the pressing game that’s been around for years now

Doesn’t matter who the manager is, these are just a constant

There's a reason why the managers keep changing. The players are crap.
To be completely fair to Carlo, he inherited this mess, they bought it. When his players were fit, we looked like a top team.
Thought losing Allan for 2 months was bad, losing Douc looks as bad or even worse. Without James, we can do. At least Siggy showed glimpses of being somewhat a decent sub. Without those two terriers on the other hand... None of our bench players lack the punch/grit/whatever to just keep running, keep closing down the opposition, and overall to just press for full 90.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It isn't all about spirit for me. This is a legit skill. You can't just want to win the ball and then suddenly you're Makelele.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The big issue for me is Marcel Brands has signed 5 midfielders (6 if you include James) yet the midfield is still as issue.

At what point do we stop this fella wasting money?

 

[Joey66]

After a few games now, Ancelotti has referred to spirit/us not winning second balls;



I think he's spot on.

Our lads, particularly our midfield, isn't combative enough.

This team, points wise, is within a sniff of Champions League but you'd be hard pushed to find an Everton team that finished top 10 over the years with a worse midfield.

Doucoure, Allan and Rodriguez improved it ten fold at the start of the season. Doucoure was ran into the ground, Allan was carrying an injury before he eventually missed a big spell and is now looking rusty and Rodriguez is what he is.

We're then left with Iwobi. Davies. Sigurdsson. Gomes. They can't tackle. They're all bullied. They don't want to do the donkey work - they don't press/show enough for the ball. They're not balanced and they're just... passive. Andre Gomes being the most dribbled past player in the top 4 european leagues is indicative of the problem.

I think it's this Ancelotti refers to when he's talking about mentality, not showing spirit and not winning second balls. He's spot on.

For me, midfield remains the priority in the summer.

I see we're linked with Rabiot again. Our biggest transfer should be a centre midfielder...

After that, addressing that right flank to give us an actual threat/balance and this Everton team go to another level.

Like to see us win the first ball in midfield TBH the room they had for their two goals were like free kicks without a wall ..... they took them very well , but the midfield & defence was so deep in was an open invitation imo.....

 

[Joey66]

Davies is only a young'un, a lot forget that. He's also suffered Koeman/Allardyce and co. Needs time.

Would definitely keep him, but we're not helping the lad with that team around him. Asking him to play a different game to cover missing players too isn't ideal/

Or subbing him when he is the best player at the time on the pitch - when the board comes up for our first sub - My son states whos playing the best for you he will be off - 9/10 its spot on......

 

[brieverton]

It's the midfield.

We don't have enough physicality / pace / technical ability in the midfield as a whole, and certainly not all at the same time.

Gomes, Sigurdsson, Iwobi, Davies, they are all, like it or not, very ordinary players. None of whom do anything particularly well. Dourcouré is an upgrade in terms of his dynamism and fitness and Allan is coming back off injury. Personally I think he'll find it increasingly difficult to adapt with the toll of injuries, age, and the physicality being much more demanding than he is used to.

Pressing is part of it but to improve in the longer term we need to combine it with technical ability of which we have none outside of James.

The better sides not only have a much higher work rate but they make the ball do the work.

Getting stuck in is the minimum requirement but you only have to watch Gomes and Sigurdsson for 5 minutes to know we don't get that off them. They just aren;t those type of players. I'm not exactly sure what they are, other than quite dreadful largely.