Shareholders Association force EGM

[Coach]

If you own a business you put your own money in. If you have no intention of putting money in why buy into the business. You're talking like the owners of Everton would be doing a favour by investing. If you were a plumber and your tools broke would you think it was ridiculous to consider investing in new tools?

A mate of mine owns a garage and health and safety have just told him he has to replace all of his equipment over 10 years old - he is probably going to close down for two reasons 1. because he can't afford it and 2. because he thinks he won't get his money back.

Like I said above what do you mean by investing? Donation or expecting to get your money back (basically an interest free loan) or get it back plus a return?

 

[Thuck ma Baws]

A mate of mine owns a garage and health and safety have just told him he has to replace all of his equipment over 10 years old - he is probably going to close down for two reasons 1. because he can't afford it and 2. because he thinks he won't get his money back.

Like I said above what do you mean by investing? Donation or expecting to get your money back (basically an interest free loan) or get it back plus a return?

Although I feel sorry for your mate, it's a poor example. If a business owner doesn't want to invest in making their business a success then why own a business. Investing in a business is not about donating or making interest free loans if you are an owner of that business. It's like saying "I'm not fixing the broken windows on my house because I'm not a charity". If you fix the windows the house is worth more to the owner. If you don't the rain gets in and it rots from the inside out.

 

[Coach]

Although I feel sorry for your mate, it's a poor example. If a business owner doesn't want to invest in making their business a success then why own a business. Investing in a business is not about donating or making interest free loans if you are an owner of that business. It's like saying "I'm not fixing the broken windows on my house because I'm not a charity". If you fix the windows the house is worth more to the owner. If you don't the rain gets in and it rots from the inside out.

It's not a poor example at all - it is a real life example of the trite analogy you posed.

 

[Thuck ma Baws]

It's not a poor example at all - it is a real life example of the trite analogy you posed.

Have to agree to disagree then mate. Being a business owner who refuses to invest in their asset does not, in my opinion, make you a good businessman.

 

[Coach]

Have to agree to disagree then mate. Being a business owner who refuses to invest in their asset does not, in my opinion, make you a good businessman.

We will, won't we. That's it for me in this thread.

Anyway, glad it is all so simple for you - how is business working out for you then? I take it you are one of Britains richest men by now if it is so easy?

 

[Papa Shango]

Have to agree to disagree then mate. Being a business owner who refuses to invest in their asset does not, in my opinion, make you a good businessman.

It does if he doesnt think he will be getting any return on his investment. Selling up would make more sense.

 

[Eggs]

Now is not the time for this.

...disagree, its all about accountability.

 

[Thuck ma Baws]

We will, won't we. That's it for me in this thread.

Anyway, glad it is all so simple for you - how is business working out for you then? I take it you are one of Britains richest men by now if it is so easy?

Don't patronise me mate. I'm not claiming to be Richard Branson but a law degree followed by several years in practice before going on to be a fairly successful small business owner means I've got a fair grip on the fact that failing to invest in an asset isn't the best way to maximise potential.

 

[jaybx1878]

Bill will be practising his crocodile tears and his 'don't blame me, i'm trying my best' act all weekend in preparation for this

 

[Tree13]

Don't patronise me mate. I'm not claiming to be Richard Branson but a law degree followed by several years in practice before going on to be a fairly successful small business owner means I've got a fair grip on the fact that failing to invest in an asset isn't the best way to maximise potential.

You're failing to appreciate that different assets can have their maximum returns unlocked in different ways; one such way is to sell the asset without investing further, minimising ongoing loss. This may be very appropriate for one asset but highly inappropriate for another, and the situation might differ if you substitute one owner for another. Far too many factors at play to make a hard and fast rule.

I believe you when you say you're not Richard Branson.

 

[LITLEJOE]

How much of your own money do you think is a reasonable amount to put in? Going on what you say that Kenwright is worth £33m then he has put in about 20% of this - think about how much you are worth and ask yourself if would you put one fifth of it into Everton?

And, what do you mean by invest mate?

Do you mean donate money i.e. just give your own money to Everton and never get anything back for it except for the fans' plaudits / abuse. Or do you mean put money in and expect to get it back again?

he didnt put anything in to the club ,he bought shares...to make a big ****ing profit.

ive put more into our club than kenwright has.

 

[Thuck ma Baws]

You're failing to appreciate that different assets can have their maximum returns unlocked in different ways; one such way is to sell the asset without investing further, minimising ongoing loss. This may be very appropriate for one asset but highly inappropriate for another, and the situation might differ if you substitute one owner for another. Far too many factors at play to make a hard and fast rule.

I believe you when you say you're not Richard Branson.

You're right, there's no hard and fast rule that can be applied across all businesses. Where I disagree with you and coach though is that I don't feel that neglecting an asset, especially at a time when the market dictates that you need to evolve to keep up with new legislation such as coach's garage example, can ever lead to that asset increasing in value outside of normal industry inflation.

Anyway, suck on my fat one.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Tony fernandes apparantly has round £500 mil mate, according to the sunday times rich list

2011/2012 Four Four Two Magazine Football Rich list had the top 100 richest people in football:

http://fourfourtwo.com/lists/thefootballrichlist201112thefull100.aspx

31. Tony Fernandes £208m
QPR (New entry)
QPR's new majority shareholder is a Malaysian entrepreneur who has a long realtionship with England. Tony Fernandes was educated at Epsom College from 1977 to 1983 and then graduated from the London School of Economics in 1987. He worked very briefly with Virgin Atlantic as an auditor, subsequently becoming the financial controller for Richard Branson's Virgin Records in London from 1987 to 1989.
He moved back home and worked for Warner Music there from 1992 to 2001. Just after the September 11 terror attacks he took over AirAsia, the heavily-indebted subsidiary of the Malaysian government-owned conglomerate DRB-Hicom. Just one year after his takeover, AirAsia had broken even and cleared all its debts; in November 2004, its initial public offering (the first stock offer by a previously private company) was oversubscribed by 130%.
As a serial entrepreneur, he has founded no fewer than four airlines – AirAsia, its long-haul affiliate Air-Asia X and joint ventures in Indonesia and Thailand. He is also part-owner, with his business partner, of the privately held Tune Group, which runs hotel, financial services and mobile phone businesses. In August he bought Bernie Ecclestone's 66% stake in the Hoops for at least £35m. He also owns the Team Lotus F1 racing team.

30. Robert Earl £240m
Everton (Last year £200m, 32nd)
Robert Earl has a 23% stake in Everton, but while the club remains at an impasse over whether to rebuild Goodison or find a new stadium, he has been concentrating on rebuilding the Planet Hollywood hotel-casino operation. The son of a 1950s crooner, London-born Earl has been in the restaurant trade all his life and made a £50m-plus fortune by the early 1980s.
Launching Planet Hollywood, with a host of movie stars from Sylvester Stallone to Bruce Willis as partners, propelled him into the limelight. His other interests including a stake in the Earl of Sandwich chain of takeaway food outlets in America, and a chain of Italian family restaurants bought for over £30m in 2009 which are now worth £125m. With the Earl family property holdings, and other family interests, his total worth is now £240m.

 

[BoysInBlue]

How much of your own money do you think is a reasonable amount to put in? Going on what you say that Kenwright is worth £33m then he has put in about 20% of this - think about how much you are worth and ask yourself if would you put one fifth of it into Everton?

And, what do you mean by invest mate?

Do you mean donate money i.e. just give your own money to Everton and never get anything back for it except for the fans' plaudits / abuse. Or do you mean put money in and expect to get it back again?

Good question. My initial answer would be something more than NOTHING, which is the sum total that he has given the club since he bought his 23% in 2006.

How do we know he's invested nothing? Because the level of debt hasn't changed, the net spend is neglible, and we continue to only be able to buy players after we've sold existing ones.

The public accounts of the club are there for all to read if they can be bothered to do so. And this man has not put a single penny into the club, despite being an incredibly rich man.

 

[BoysInBlue]

You're failing to appreciate that different assets can have their maximum returns unlocked in different ways; one such way is to sell the asset without investing further, minimising ongoing loss. This may be very appropriate for one asset but highly inappropriate for another, and the situation might differ if you substitute one owner for another. Far too many factors at play to make a hard and fast rule.

I believe you when you say you're not Richard Branson.

An interesting suggestion, which results in the next big question: if Everton are one such asset that should be sold before losses go any further, why hasn't he sold? What is he waiting for? 7 years in, nobody is meeting the asking price. Why not drop the asking price?

Meanwhile the club continues to cannibalise it's own assets as a direct result of Earl not investing money (GIVING MONEY TO THE MANAGER TO SPEND ON NEW PLAYERS) as a result of selling stars and hoping that (some of the) money recouped is wisely invested in replacements.